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Thread: How to go from 1/2" copper to 1/4" compression fitting, with a ball valve inbetween

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member David Palmer's Avatar
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    Sharkbite makes a 1/2 threaded female to 1/4 and or 3/8 slip fitting that is quite nice.

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    Give it up "ball-valve", the only people who use saddle valves are lazy people who are always looking for a short cut.

  3. #18
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll give it up when google gives less then 300,000 pages devoted to saddle valves.

    The guy that uses saddle valves: [lets call them saddle TAPS - which take away the cheap valve issue]

    1] does not have 200 bucks for a plumber to screw around with his pipes and did the reseach for WHERE they make sense, cost and mechanically

    2] All municipalities that tie into mains

    3] general engineering contractors that know how to spec them, use them and install them properly where cutting into a large pipe would cost several thousand dollars for no good reason.

    The guy NOT using saddle valves for the following reasons:

    1] granpa didnt have them available
    2] loss of profit because its way too quick [sorry, its hard to look at ones real motive for not offering a customer a quick solution]
    3] not bright enough to drill a hole to give good flow to a saddle valve and NOT use the dubious self pierce feature.

    Maybe I am just too good to my customers because when I was 15 and bending tons of sheet metal in my uncles HVAC shop, a customer came in with a blower motor that had plain bearings that "squeaked" a bit when running. Little did I know my uncle was watching as I showed the guy how to oil the relatively new motor and make it work another decade.

    I really thought my favorite uncle was going to beat me after that. He made me understand that to survive you sell new motors, and then resell the good ones you got for free that some dope thought was bad.

    I decided just then that when I had my own business I would do my best to help my customers save a buck - which especially now in this economy, makes a saddle valve look like a chance to make that next mortage payment.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 11-05-2011 at 07:49 PM.

  4. #19
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that your uncle is a crook and it has jaded your views.

  5. #20
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    Saddle valves are complete crap. I never seen a saddle valve on municipalities trucks, I have seen them live tap a main, and if they need to do a larger tap, they will cut in a proper fitting.

  6. #21
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that your uncle is a crook and it has jaded your views.

    I pray you are not in the trades. Sure sounds like it. Huge void between crook and shrewd.

    He's a great guy. Made a fortune and built incredible things. Iprobably installed 500 saddle taps for him for central humidifiers and never saw a callback. Didnt jade anything, taught me that tradesman, even of the highest sort, need to make a profit when a dope is asking to be taken. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

    Its served me well all my life, because outside of well drillers, and stuccoers, I have never hired a sub in my life. Forced me to learn all the trades.

    I did, recently get a HVAC ducting bid, because of time restraints. My estimate was $900 bucks and the LOW bid was $3600. My guys did it in a day for perhaps $600. Never even saw a flex duct before in their life.

    Got so sick of excavation contractor CROOKS, that I went out and bought my own dozer, 2 backhoes and a large excavator. Converted an old 4x4 truck to the oiler and fueler. Now when the HVAC guys are watcing NFL on sunday, I'm drinking wine subdividing 160 acres while riding48,000 pounds of beautiful American iron, making 200 bucks an hour.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 11-05-2011 at 10:33 PM.

  7. #22
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    That is quite the story.

  8. #23
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SewerRatz View Post
    Saddle valves are complete crap. I never seen a saddle valve on municipalities trucks, I have seen them live tap a main, and if they need to do a larger tap, they will cut in a proper fitting.
    Here are some top quality saddle tap valves - made in Cicero, Chicago. They do saddle taps too. I wonder how so many companys making complete crap manage to survive?

    http://www.municipalpipeservices.com...vePlusinfo.pdf

  9. #24
    DIY Junior Member David Palmer's Avatar
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    I'm new here, BUT, consider what you are saying. You are calling guys crooks for charging whatever they want, then turning around and saying you make $200 bucks an hour while sipping on Wine, which I guess for you, translates to living the good life. How much do you pay your "help"? Its hard to imagine you living like Bill Gates when you are under cutting other contractors by thousands of Dollars, all awhile, pointing a finger at them and calling them crooks and thieves. That doesn't sit well with me. Statistically, Saddle Valves are terrible and their failure rate far exceeds that of the alternative. For my money, I'll stick with the alternative.

  10. #25
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    Here is an example of saddle valves are complete crap.

    There was a plumbing company back in the 1980's that was doing work at O' Hare Airport. They used a Saddle on a 8" main. The following day after the tap was made and buried, the saddle blew off and it flooded O' Hare to the point where it had to shut down. After the dug it up and had the main throttled down they ended up cutting out the tap and installing a proper tee.

    There are more I can tell you about that have blown off, which is more than likely why they no longer use saddles but do a hot tap, or install a tee. To many troubles with saddle valves. But we are off topic here talking about city mains verses the cheap arse saddle tee's they make for ice maker and humidifier hook ups.

    You say they should drill a hole for those needle piercing valves. Well thatís all well and good, but still does not stop the problem with the valve not closing properly when you need to service the appliance its hooked up to. Also people come to this site for good advice (whether they follow it or not is up to them), we should not be telling them stuff that is against codes. We should tell them the proper way to do things. Here in Illinois a home owner can do his own plumbing in the home he lives in as long as its a single family home, and he gets a permit and follows the plumbing code.

    As I said we here as pro's should be telling people the right way to do things, not the against the code half arsed way. You are doing the original poster a disservice by giving bad advice as well al those that come to this forum and read your posts.
    BallValve, I learned from another thread, that you always think you are 100% right about everything, so I am done arguing with you.

  11. #26
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Saddle valves for any type of residential use are prohibited under the IPC. There is not a single municipal water company in a 300 mile radius of here that would even consider a saddle tap valve to tap off the main.

    This is a really stupid argument. Might as well argue the merits of expandable tail stocks and p traps with crown AAV's
    All that crap is box store and hardware store garbage peddled to ignorant home owners and handy hacks.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  12. #27
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Im pretty sure you guys dont click links but for a hack solution, 2,060,000 hits on Google means your hated device gets a LOT of use.

    But plumbers are always 100% right and dont read much, so I understand the rants.

    And a lot of handy hacks just do not have 200$ vs $5.98. And another 200 for a permit. And do you really think a city will cut in a 10x10x 1" tee in a ductile iron or even pvc main for a 900 square foot mobile home? Some are rated for gas lines also.

    http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...+manufacturers


    http://www.hottapsaddles.com/hottapsaddles406.php

    Took a long time to get granpa off the knob and tube wiring too.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 11-06-2011 at 11:13 AM.

  13. #28
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    The city of Bloomingdale issues the permit for free, and a tee solder and a angle stop ould only cost around 12 bucks.. I do not know where you are pulling your numbers from. Other cities charge any where from10 to 45 bucks for a permit. Only time I seen $200 permit fees is when someone is building a house, never that much for a repair permit.

    Again why push a hack souliton on to someone seeking advice, tell them the right way to make the repair so it will not haunt them later. I was taught as a young child "Do it right the first time, or do not do it at all!"

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