Pressure Regulator Question

JK60 · Oct 29, 2011

A few years ago I had sprinklers installed in my front yard, and interestingly enough there was no pressure regulator installed even though the pressure at my house is about 110 psi. Recently the local water company installed a new water meter and since then I have experienced an alarming increase in the failure rate of my sprinklers (Toro 570Z series). The sprinkler plastic body just cracks. I want to install a pressure regulator outside (there is a regulator and expansion tank inside the house already), and have two questions. Are there specific water pressure regulators for outdoor use or can they all be used indoors and outdoors? What I have on hand is a Watts U5B. Because of space limitations the regulator must be installed horizontally. Is that a problem? Thank you ahead of time for any information you can give me.

Gary Swart · Oct 29, 2011

I have about 90 psi coming from the city main, and use a PRV inside as you have described, but never have I heard of a PRV used to reduce the pressure in a sprinkler system. Not disputing the sprinkler failure rate, but I would sure get more input on this before using a PRV on the irrigation system. Surely you have businesses in your area that install and maintain irrigation systems, and there may be plumbers with more experience that I have that can comment as well. If you do install one outside, you may need to remove it in the fall as I do not know that there is any way to drain it. I even remove my BF just to make sure a small amount of water could escape the winterizing blow out of the lines. Unscrewing 2 unions is much cheaper than buying a new BF! I don't think there is a restriction on the positioning of a PRV.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Jadnashua · Oct 29, 2011

Carefully check the spec sheets for the sprinkler heads you are using...they may have an upper limit. It may just reference a code listing. Code generally specifies anything above 80psi requires a regulator to bring it down at least to 80. It would not be irrational for the heads to fail if they were designed for a max of 80, and they had 110. Also, keep in mind that you may use them at off hours, and the pressure can change quite a bit, expecially overnight (but you probably don't run it then).

JK60 · Oct 29, 2011

Jadnashua and Gary Swart - Thank you for your input. The spec sheet for the sprinklers states maximum operational pressure of 75 psi. So I am way above that. Did not pay attention to this issue because problems did not occur until the water meter was replaced with a smart meter. Since then sprinkler operation has become much noisier and high sprinkler failure rate followed. I live in a mild climate, San Francisco Bay Area, so freezing is not an issue for installation of an outdoor PRV. Can you comment as to whether the PRV I have, the Watts U5B, can be used outdoors?

Gary Swart · Oct 29, 2011

I can think of no logical reason why the PRV could not be used outside, but that's not an "official" answer. Might changing sprinkler heads be an alternative? Again, just a question to answer your question.

JK60 · Oct 29, 2011

The down side of replacing the sprinklers is that there are about 40 of them, so it could be a costlly proposition. However it is a good idea and I will have to explore the availability of sprinklers designed to operate at higher PSI.

hj · Oct 30, 2011

In this area ALL pressure regulators are installed outdoors.

JK60 · Oct 30, 2011

Looking at the Watts PRVs specs, there appear to be specific models designated for "accessible outdoor or pit installation". My unit does not have this designation. Does that mean that it cannot be used outside, or is it still useable, but perhaps with a protective insulating box over the PRV or just an insulating wrap over the spring cage?

Wallskev · Oct 31, 2011

JK60, not sure where yoiu live but.

Here in my area of North Carolina , all BFP and PRV are located outside , above ground 18" by code and are generally put into an isulated Box(Fake Rock) or removed annually.

Gary Swart · Oct 31, 2011

My water line from the street is 5 feet deep. Why in the world would you put a PRV that deep underground? When (not if) if fails, you have to excavate a huge pit to access it. I realize that not everyone lives where freezing can be a problem, but even some areas in the south experience occasional freezing. My PRV is inside the house where the line enters. My BF is at ground level before the PRV, and although it can be blown out with air, I do remove it in the fall. And, not all BFP have to be above ground.

JK60 · Oct 31, 2011

Gary, I am not sure who your response was directed to. If it was to me, i had no intention of installing the PRV underground. To repeat, I currently do have a PRV that controls the water pressure inside the house and it is located inside, in the basement area. Because of accessibility, it is easiier for me to install a separate PRV outside for the sprinklers, rather then running another copper line from inside the house to the sprinkler valves.

Gary Swart · Oct 31, 2011

Actually my response was related to both to the comments by HJ and Wallskev regarding PRVs being located outside and above ground. Their statements may very well be accurate and correct for their specific locations, but don't apply to all areas of the country. Recently, I suggested to a licensed plumber that my BFP be relocated to above ground, and he responded that that was not recommended and to leave it below the surface in a utility box. I also checked on the Wilkins site and find this Wilkins 950 BFP is intended for below ground installation in a meter box.

JK60 · Oct 31, 2011

Here is an interesting question, not related though to above or below ground installation. I currently do not have a BFP. If I do install a PRV for the sprinklers plus I already have a PRV for household requirements, do I need a BFP?

Gary Swart · Oct 31, 2011

BFP are required by law to prevent cross contamination of the water supply which includes the city water as well as your own. A PRV regulates pressure. It does not prevent cross contamination. Your sprinkler system was either installed by a hack or a DIY home owner. I would urge you to investigate the California and San Francisco codes as different states and cities have their own requirements. What would happen in my little old country town if a home was found irrigating without a BFP is the property's entire water service would be discontinued until A BFP was installed and inspected. Ours must be inspected by a certified inspector annually and recertified or our water is shut off. It ain't no joke. Knowing the environmental concerns California has on so many things, it would be amazing if they were not quite anal about BFP.

JK60 · Oct 31, 2011

Gary, thank you for your input. I guess I was under the assumption that PRVs, by virtue of their design, allow water flow in forward direction only and not back. With that in mind I thought the PRV on the sprinkler side would offer the required degree of protection against cross contamination. Not sure at this time where my assumption came from. Possibly I read this when I was exploring installation of an expansion tank and came acros some articles that touched on PRV design and operation. In any case looks like I will have to investigate this further as well as look into the local codes.

Ballvalve · Nov 1, 2011

Put it outside, inside or in a foam rock, no matter. Some PRV's may have a high pressure bypass, but yes, for all practical purposes they are check valves also. I would worry about the lettuce at the market MUCH more than this fantasy about backflow prevention, so new to our list of ways to die. Right in the category of .00001% lead in your faucet casting being illegal.

Driving to the store to get the BFP is far more dangerous to you and your neighbor than drinking a little dirt - one person, in a city, every 50 years. Spend some time in India to get my point.

A tourists sneeze in SF China town is 1000 times more life threatening.

I'll bet Walt Disney and Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse all had hoses and sprinklers, yet managed somehow to live long and enduring lives without suffering any long rides on their Toto's.

My kid has been eating dirt in the garden, laying in the chicken and goose coop and mucking in cow crap for 6 years. I dont think he's ever sneezed yet.

Our culture of misplaced cleanliness is whats making people sick.

Gary Swart · Nov 1, 2011

So the morale of Ballvalve's response is, if you don't think a law is important, don't bother obeying it. Try that excuse next time you get pulled over for speeding, seat belt use, cell phone use, etc.. Or tell a plumbing or electrical inspector their requirement are BS. You are correct about the PRV having a check valve, but I have seen nowhere that this is acceptable for a BFP for an irrigation system. I have a PRV in my house and a BFP in my yard and there has never been a mention that the PRV can serve as a legal BFP.

Ballvalve · Nov 1, 2011

Pretty hard to buy a sprinkler valve without a built in BFP.

Gary Swart · Nov 1, 2011

Ballvalve, just what do call a "sprinkler valve"? If it is a hose bib, well yes, it has a BFP built in, but this thread is about an automatic yard system that is operated by solenoid controlled valves. These certainly do not have built in BFP. I would suggest you Google the subject starting with "Cross contamination prevention". Knowing your stance on other safety concerns with water heaters, I don't suppose this will make much impression on you, but maybe other might be interested in the subject.

Ballvalve · Nov 2, 2011

Don't get out much? about the only normal store valve without BFP is the 1" straight 'in lines' which I use for filling tanks only. But it IS easy to still buy "normal hose bibs".

http://www.google.com/search?source....,cf.osb&fp=14c632947f293162&biw=1120&bih=573

As to water heaers, I find springs to be more reliable than a bag in a beer can.

Pressure Regulator Question

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