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Thread: Changing shower tub trim and need help! Powers 410 Hydroguard

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member angel9894's Avatar
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    We DO have individual shower water supply shut off and I've actually already had it shut off I believe. I will double check to be sure.

    So assuming that's the case, then I basically need to coordinate the plumber with the tile guys so that the Plumber comes in to do his part after the tile guys remove the old tile and before they get ready to put in the new tile. Which of course, will be a PITA lol.

    But replacing the valve and ONLY the valve is possible without having to change the whole shower body, right? I mean, this *should* be able to be done without it costing me two legs?

  2. #17
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    It is hard to say how easy or hard it will be to retile, or if it really should be just retiled verses tearout completely and start over. But, once the tile is off (and you may find the only way to do that would tear up what's beneath so much it costs about the same to replace the whole thing), changing the valve is the easy thing. A full new shower could easily cost $6k or more in NYC. Depending on the age of the thing, the shower pan may be on borrowed time. It's really hard to tell.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  3. #18

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    If you are removing and replacing tile, and you have a way to shut off your own water, then changing the tub/shower valve is not that much work. You will never find a better time to do it.
    Joe the Plumber

  4. #19
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Three things about your original posting which make it impossible for us to give any opinion on the pricing.
    1. NYC. that makes access to your jobsite an unknown
    2. High rise. This means elevators which can add immense time to the job, especially if they have to use the freight elevator.
    3. Water shutoff. If there are not local valves for your unit or floor, (not the ones on the valve itself which will have to be removed), then the entire building may have to be shut off, which often means "after hours", and lengthy drain downs, which means additional costs.
    4. "replacing the valve" IS "changing the whole shower body". The shower body IS the valve.
    Last edited by hj; 10-26-2011 at 07:10 AM.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  5. #20
    DIY Junior Member angel9894's Avatar
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    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok, so changing the valve is changing the whole body. I got it. So I guess I have to find out about the local valves. Really sux that the building stuck us with this version of shower valves that is so costly to update

  6. #21
    DIY Junior Member angel9894's Avatar
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    Update:

    So the tile guys are not taking the walls down to studs and said that they aren't going to be having the wall open. They re-tile apartments in our building often and I guess they can remove the tile in the tub surround without much damage. So with that said, do I just schedule the plumber to come and do it anytime before they tile (As opposed to trying to schedule him come in the middle of the re-tiling) ? If the tile guys wont be doing anything to make it much easier for the plumber to get into the wall to change the older shower valve/body what's the smartest way to go about this?

    HJ btw, to answer your previous question, we DO have shut off for our unit ONLY, so they don't have to do anything with the building.

    And lastly, while looking for the new replacements for the shower/tub since I can't use just new trim, I need to buy the sets that specifically say "Valve IN" or "Valve Included"? And is there anything else I need to be aware of when choosing the new showersheads/valve control/spout set?

    Thanks for any feedback again guys!

  7. #22
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    If you don't have access to the wet wall from say another room, then you'll need to make the hole bigger to be able to replace the guts. There are two ways around that, either the tile guys can patch it or you can use a remodel plate to cover the bigger hole.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #23
    DIY Junior Member angel9894's Avatar
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    Got it! Thanks so much for your advice

  9. #24
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Out in the beach area where I used to work a lot, there is actually ONE high rise building ( 29 stories ). They snuck that in back around 1970 before the state slapped a 30 foot height limit on all building in the coastal zone. Anyway, I had to double my charges working there because I usually had to park 1/2 mile away and hoof it, ride the servants elevator which was hugely slow, etc. And in the back of your mind, you are always mindful that if you cause a plumbing leak, the damage could be in 6 or 7 figures!!!!!!!! I stopped going there.
    So yes, a bathroom remodel will run you 10k easy. Tile work will be expensive because there is no place to hose out the buckets....they will be lugging buckets of mortar in and out of there all day long. A job which on guy could do will probably use a crew of 3 or 4

  10. #25
    DIY Junior Member angel9894's Avatar
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    Update:
    Hey Guys
    So I've gotten 4 or 5 bids from Plumbers ranging from $600 per shower to $1250 per shower. The plumber we liked and trusted the most was of course, the most expensive. I also finally got on the phone with someone from Powers who was extremely nice and sympathetic to my cause of having a commercial shower body in my residential apartment and how that stunk for remodeling.

    Anyway, she showed me the only Powers Trim kit they offer which is this one
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    I can't say it's much better than what's currently there and she agreed it's not much of an improvement aesthetically.

    My question is this, the actual lever in the second photo, there is no possible creative way to get a part from a plumbing supply that could be used in place of that they may look at least slightly nicer? It's not just a metal piece with thread and a screw?

    I am just clawing for any out of the box idea's that could possibly work to allow me not to break in the wall, change the S.b's, risk any unknowns and spend a small fortune.

    Thanks again for your expertise and feedback! Ya'll are incredibly appreciated!

  11. #26
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    There is no industry standard for trim pieces...their only requirement is that they fit their own valve body. So, anything you tried would be a crapshoot, unlikely to work, but you could get lucky. Problem is, you'd probably spend as much trying a bunch of different ones as just tearing the old one out and putting in a new one.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  12. #27
    DIY Junior Member angel9894's Avatar
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    One last question:
    If I decide to go the conservative route and just change the showerhead and spout, is there a specific kind of spout I need to buy or I can pretty much buy any one I like?

  13. #28
    DIY Junior Member angel9894's Avatar
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    Default Decision made but now which to install?

    In a quick turn of events my dad has bitten the bullet and given me the green light to redo the shower bodies completely. With that said, the plumber we are hiring quoted me a Delta and an American Standard replacement, but as I posted before, I had it in my mind to go Kohler.

    I just want to put in whatever brand will be the least trouble, most reliable and easy to fix and easy to upgrade when the time comes. Is Kohler ok or is there a reason to go with A.S. or Delta for the shower bodies?

    Need to make a decision by Monday so appreciate your advice

  14. #29
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I'd go with the Delta. If you get the R10000 rough-in valve, you have lots of choices for trim and functionality. At a plumbing supply store, the rough-in valve and the trim are separate purchase items...in a big box store, they are often packaged together. You have a choice of pressure balance (PB) with no volume control (single-handle), PB with volume control (two handles or knobs), or thermostatic with volume control depending on which trim you choose (two handles or knobs). All of those meet the antiscald shower requirements and are likely to have alternate trims way into the future. With Kohler, IF you save the manual and part list, you can probably order the parts, but don't expect alternate trim or to find the parts locally...you'll have to order them, whereas, you can likely pick up the Delta parts locally in many places. In either, they would probably be available for free to the original owner from the factory, but sometimes you can't wait!
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #30
    DIY Junior Member angel9894's Avatar
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    So I just got off the phone with my Plumber who is super nice but SUPER rushed. I am ordering the shower bodies today and want to make sure I get what I want. He said the only "MUSTS" are that I get a dual Shower/Tub body with Integral Stops.


    Which of these am I supposed to get (If I want to go with Kohler) ?


    Kohler K-11748-KS Rite-Temp Valve with Diverter ? Is that the right one.



    I'm ordering from here http://www.********.com/ NY replacement Parts

    If order the Delta R10000 is there a specific version I need to get that has PB and integral stops?

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