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Thread: Need new toilet

  1. #1
    Engineer jk60's Avatar
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    Default Need new toilet

    After 13 years, my Kohler Rialto pressure assist toilet appears to be dying. It is just unable to flush anything in a single flush. The water level in the bowl is low and when you flush it appears that the flushing action is too fast to accomplish anything. By now this is a discontinued model with no replacement parts so looks like I am in a market for a new unit. I found this site and noticed that the Toto Ultramax is highly recommended. I like the one piece design and the fact that it is a gravity flush so obviously it will be a lot quieter then the Kohler I had. I was ready to order it, but then I happened to look at the toilet reviews in Consumer Reports (October 2002) and surprisingly this toilet was ranked kinda low. According to Consumer Reports the Ultramax fell under a heading "Models with Lower Solid-Waste Scores - there are Better Choices". I am not trying to offend anyone here by bringing up Consumer Reports but I would appreciate any information on why there is such a discrepancy between their ratings and the high opinions of the Ultramax toilet on this forum.

    Thank you,

    Jerry

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Jerry,
    I was wondering the same thing.
    Many of the products on the top portion of their list do work well.
    I and others have always felt that pressure assist toilets perform well.
    The Flushmate equipped tanks are similar in performance with the 3" flush valve of the Toto Ultramax and other G-Max Toto's.

    However, not everyone likes the sound curve on the pressure assist toilets using the Flushmate. .
    Some do, and some don't.
    I call it the Tim Allen, "Home Improvement" syndrome.
    "More Power! Arhgg! Arhgg!"

    Their 2005 report give the Eljer Aqua Saver with the PF/2 pressure assist thier best buy.

    Everyone that has one, knows that it takes two flushes to get rid of the paper and small bits of waste that the pressure jet breaks up.

    That's right, a two flush toilet gets their best buy ranking.

    They test indestructable baby wipes, sponges and balls.

    Home owners flush with toilet paper, and poop.

    Both of these items break apart when flushed and become small bits that float.

    The CR test doesn't tell them how the toilet performs in "real" usage.

    Real usage does tell you that.

    I like to install these in my home and give them the good old fashioned "road test".

    Noise becomes a real issue.
    When you consider that maybe half of the population sits down while flushing, Maybe in a large warehouse and surrounded by other men flipping levers, it's not a big deal.
    But many use their toilet in the quiet confines of their own home and like the privacy and predictability of the G-Max noise curve.

    You will note that on their page, they list the Toto Carlyle toilet as very good at waste removal while they list the Ultramax as only "fair"
    Both of these models are almost identical in form and function.
    What happened to their testing methods?
    How can such "similar products" that get the G-Max rating test out so differently on their tests?
    It's hard to accept that the highest rated model by plumbers and consumers is only "fair" while the companion model rates a "very good"?

    CR rates the Kohler Wellworth as one of the better models, yet MaP testing gives them a rather low 125 to 250 gram rating.

    The Toto Drake will move 900 grams and the Toto Ultramax moves 700 grams.

    These numbers are a lot better than the Wellworth ratings that they are so proud of.

    The CR 2005 also admits that the Briggs Vacuity doesn't do well.

    Like that was news to anyone else.

    Homeowners and plumbers feel that the G-Max Toto toilets with the 3" flush valve are the all around best.

    It clears solid waste well.

    The bowl is deep enough that the waste is covered until it's flushed down.

    Workmanship and quality are high.

    Repairs are simple and can be done without tools.

    A fill valve is $8, the flapper $10 and a repair cap for the fill valve is $2

    The report I've provided is based on homeowner and plumber feedback.
    It's hard to argue with what people truly like.

    The Toto has been selling itself. Most of it is repeat business.

    Or maybe, this is just some unfinished business between them and I?
    Read the link below for more on that.

    Terry Love's review on toilets

  3. #3
    Engineer jk60's Avatar
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    Toto Carlyle

    Terry,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to give me your analysis of the CR review of toilets. It was very informative and obviously touched on some excellent points. I was wondering myself how the Carlyle got such higher scores then the Ultramax. Ultimately it's best to get the opinion of users and people with experience such as yourself. You've certainly convinced me to go with the Toto.

    Thanks again,

    Jerry
    Last edited by Reader Review; 03-27-2008 at 03:09 PM.

  4. #4
    Engineer jk60's Avatar
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    Took my wife to look at the Toto Ultramax and she liked the looks of the Toto Supreme. It's a shorter unit with a power gravity flushing system which I believe is not as good as the G-Max system on the Ultramax. Does anyone have any experience with the Toto Supreme? Would you recommend it? Thank you for any information you can give.

    Jerry

  5. #5
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The Toto Supreme is a nice toilet.

    It uses the 3" flush valve and has a nice trapway.
    I'm sure your wife would like it.

  6. #6
    Engineer jk60's Avatar
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    Terry,

    Thank you for the information!!!

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