JWELECTRIC will not be bullying me into silence!

[Cookie]

Bob, that bike accident was bad. I forgot about the lump behind my ear from the rear view mirror, too. How odd because that is where I got that lesion I told you about, which, recently has been determined to be also, a vascular malformation of the vessels. I got horrific head aches for a long time on that spot. But, all in all, I was just glad we both lived. That was a huge bike, and a very hard telephone pole.

To me, it doesn't matter if the driver of the bike, is responsible or not, because the fact remains, that for whatever, reason that bike gets hit, or the bike hits a car, like in my instance, there is really, no protection for that person on it. It was so serious and so, difficult to go through for both of us.

I remember that night, I called his hospital, he was life flighted out to one where the trauma unit was bigger and better I suppose, and talked to his wife. I said, " I am so sorry this happened, is your husband okay?"

It was something, I had to do. I am human. But, I remember the insurance company along with another person, yelling, why did I do that, and what did I say.

Well, I said, " how is he doing?"

So, when my husband wanted to get our sons, dirt bikes, because we own property in the mountains, the answer was still, no. What I saw was too horrific. Never, ever again, especially, with someone I love, like my sons.

When I see them on the road flying by, I cringe. It makes me shudder inside, and I pull back tight on the wheel. I made a decision that day in a split second, I really didn't get much credit or thanks, I wasn't really looking for it either, but, I don't want to ever have to make that decision again. Would I make the same decision I have asked myself once, in a while, all these years, and, the answer and the truth is, that I am not so sure I would or I could. I want to be with my kids, and my grandson, would I risk my life like I did years ago, for another person. I don't know. In a way, I would hope I would, but, I fought so hard the past few years with health problems, would I give it all away.

Well of course, if the Bike stayed in the driveway, it would be safe. Yes, there are many responsible Motorcycle drivers (when they grow up). I've seen SO many 20/30 somethings that constantly do long distance wheelies, and drive between lanes to pass cars, that I am predjudiced against bikes too. Almost killed one moron the other day who passed stopped cars (between both cars) in both lanes while I was making a left turn, with the drivers of both stopped cars (heavy traffic) signaling me that they gave me the courtesy to turn. If I killed/injured the guy, I would be held responsible, as well as the 2 drivers that gave me the go ahead. biker gave me the finger. should haved kissed my ass that I stopped. He was flying in his own self made lane.

[ballvalve]

From JW

Am I the only who recognizes these words spoken by our 30th president?
Albert Einstein said,” You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.”

I just don’t see how anyone can get anyone else fired. It was what the person being fired done that cost them their job, is this not true?

Well, there are at least two of us now

About firing, this is politics, where rational men and rules need not tread. This county has a contractors association, a good ol boys club that I would not belong to [Groucho Marx: I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member]

When 30 disgruntled men sit before the small town board and tell horror stories about the inspector, stuff happens. He may have just left on his own to get away from these knuckle scrapers with long hairs sticking our of their noses.

"Hold it the greatest sin to prefer mere existence to honor, and for the sake of life, lose the reasons for living"

And finally as to laws with numbers on them: "Extreme law is often extreme injustice" -Great portions of the Bible and Koran are ideal examples.

[leejosepho]

If this man did not know that water would be trapped in the pipe this means he was ignorant of the fact. If this man was ignorant of the fact that the water would be trapped in the pipe and he continued to make the install anyhow ...

... then how could he have possibly known any better and made any better judgment as to whether or not to proceed?

Even if the man had some kind of attitude against getting permits and calling inspectors, he still acted in simple ignorance -- nothing more -- and actual stupidity is something different:

Stupid, a. [L., to be stupefied] (Webster, 1869)
Very dull [in reasoning]; insensible; senseless; wanting in understanding [even when possibly knowledgeable]; heavy; sluggish [in thought].

example: With wild surprise, a moment stupid, motionless he stood.

Four times a year our licensing board meets for civil penalties for those who have done things improperly and criminal actions against those who are repeat offenders just like is being done in your state as we speak.

Understood, and that is good, and I would guess the majority of those "repeat offenders" are not DIYers, but are non-licensed handymen and such unlawfully doing work for other people or possibly landlords and such doing their own work on rental units.

When someone does something against the adopted codes that cause the loss of life, limb, or property then criminal action can be taken.

Understood, and that is good.

[BobL43]

I am not meaning to argue any fine points or semantics as to what is "law", and neither am I disagreeing with what you have just said about "work without permit or inspection" being "against the law". No problem there. Rather, I am simply ignorant/unaware of any criminal charges ever being filed over code violations, and yet I surely do understand a civil action could take place.


Since there is no such thing as harm being done legally, there is no need to have the word "illegally" in that statement. So then ...

What the man did had caused someone else harm, and the question here is whether and/or how he should then be punished (or the injured party awarded something) for his having (even inadvertently) caused someone harm ...

... and *not* simply for doing his own work and/or then not having his work inspected. Those two elements would be details within the case, but neither is an actual criminal or civil offense (as far as I know).


... whether or not the man had been trained and licensed and then caused harm.


No such thing has been said here. I have only said he is/was and/or at least appears to be mechanically incompetent.


We do not know whether the man was truly stupid, and I suspect he was not or else he could have likely done nothing at all. So with all mocking-and/or-ridiculing character judgment -- mis-use of the word "stupid" -- set aside, we agree that a child was hurt because of a father's mechanical ignorance.


I have never suggested any such thing, and I would simply tell the child her father had made a grievous error while trying to do something nice for her mother ... and then take things from there in relation to helping her cope with the effect of whatever had happened.


Absolutely, and nothing there would change even if the work had been been done by a pro and had been inspected. So then, the question before us here is whether or not it should be a criminal-law crime for a DIYer such as myself to place a plastic pool in his back yard and then install a couple of through-wall plumbing fittings and attach a filter and pump and fill the pool with water and send power to the pump without first getting a permit and having everything inspected.

Should I now either be fined or go to jail?

Point here is: did you do the correct wiring, ground fault protection and use in-service cover for the electric pump. Did you provide personal protection for the suction line from the pump, so as not to be able to disembowel a child that gets caught on the intake (yes, it has happened).
Lots of stuff can be done by DIY, but it has to be done safely, and not just according to what you or I may consider to be safe. I do lots of DIY work. I do my best to follow the codes. to CYA (mine).

[leejosepho]

Point here is: did you do the correct wiring, ground fault protection and use in-service cover for the electric pump. Did you provide personal protection for the suction line from the pump, so as not to be able to disembowel a child that gets caught on the intake (yes, it has happened).
Lots of stuff can be done by DIY, but it has to be done safely, and not just according to what you or I may consider to be safe. I do lots of DIY work. I do my best to follow the codes. to CYA (mine).

Yes, yes, yes and yes, of course ... and the matter of the GFI there was something else needed even before I ever got here and that I had told the electrician I would take care of before he comes. All the contractors around here are always busy, and he needs/wants to get in and back out in one day.

[Cookie]

Just a point I want to make about the title of your thread here Lee, JW is not bullying or never did bully you, you no offense, do not know what bullying is. I do.

[leejosepho]

Just a point I want to make about the title of your thread here Lee, JW is not bullying or never did bully you ...

The title of this thread only says he will not be doing so.

... you no offense, do not know what bullying is.

I cannot imagine how you could possibly say that since you know Aspies often do get bullied, but maybe you have a different comprehension of what it means to be bullied. In any case, the bullying in my own life was so bad that I ended up in prison in '78 (age 28) for a crime I committed while finally standing up to the worst bully ever in my life ... and now through more-appropriate means, I have since eliminated almost all of that from my life. So then, and whether or not JW had done or had even attempted any kind of alleged "bullying" in my previous thread, he certainly had attempted to unnecessarily be a controller of some kind at someone else's expense just like you have just done here ... but I am not accusing you of consciously or intentionally attempting to do that. Rather, and as part of my own mechanical/methodical approach to social interactions (in my Aspie-absence of any more-typical-for-others "social intelligence"), I have simply studied people's *actions* for many years now in order to be able to learn to interact reasonably well at all ... and I must admit that I have in the past occasionally also been a passive-aggressive manipulator or controller myself (though not as often as accused), and all of that means I have also occasionally even been a bit of a "bully" (at least of that particular sort) myself and have both seen and experienced all of that from both sides of the street.

Here is a thread you might find interesting ...

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt174718.html

[Cookie]

To people who know me, knows, I studied Child development, Pedology, years and years ago, when I was pretty young. I worked at places where people had a range of problems, so I feel for you with yours, I have my own. So, far as JW, this man was just answering questions Lee, as well as all here. Sometimes, people take things the wrong way and think, that is what has been happening with things here between you and JW, and I do wish you would not include me in it, as you just did. That is messed up.

I know bullying, too Lee. I know it well. So, feel for me, too. To be honest, you wouldn't want my life.

[leejosepho]

To people who know me, knows, I studied Child development, Pedology, years and years ago, when I was pretty young. I worked at places where people had a range of problems, so I feel for you with yours, I have my own. So, far as JW, this man was just answering questions Lee, as well as all here. Sometimes, people take things the wrong way and think, that is what has been happening with things here between you and JW, and I do wish you would not include me in it, as you just did. That is messed up.

I know bullying, too Lee. I know it well. So, feel for me, too. To be honest, you wouldn't want my life.

I do not mean to be debating or even discussing what JW either has or has not done here -- see my new signature line -- and yes, Cookie, I sometimes feel for you too! (wink)

[Cookie]

I am glad someone does. I hope you got what you needed fixed Lee. Is everything working okay?

[leejosepho]

I am glad someone does. I hope you got what you needed fixed Lee. Is everything working okay?

Yes. The retainer for the breaker arrived yesterday, and I turned off the power to the workshop before even taking it out there. The graphics on the retainer's instruction sheet were lousy, but I finally figured out how to properly fasten it in place inside the box ... and now I just have to wait for the electrician to come do the higher-tech stuff at the house. I have yet to try a GFI breaker for the receptacle outside the workshop since I still do not know exactly why the AFI breaker had been tripping, but that receptacle is not needed for now anyway.