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Thread: Driving licenses for immigrants

  1. #46

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    I accept all donations like Tom. Send to me. lol.

    Bob, you got to remember though, if you unjustly tax the rich, only because they are rich and can afford it, you are literally, taking away the American Dream.

    Whatever tax is imposed, it has to be fair to everyone, not just because you are rich, you pay more; or poor, you pay less. That is socialism.

    Some people do not believe the American Dream ever existed or, it is gone. When you wake up, and not jailed for something you said, you wrote, you did; compare, it to waking up in a country, where your world is a living nightmare. You can't accept the Pulitzer or a Nobel, that is living without any dream.

    If you start to make it a one-size fit all govn, you gained nothing and you lost it all.
    Last edited by Cookie; 10-19-2011 at 07:21 PM.

  2. #47
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    So, they should be held in jail until they have saved up enough money to prove they have their own ticket for going back?!
    I don't know Lee, you tell me. WHAT is YOUR solution Lee?
    I was not meaning to give you a hard time there. Please forgive!

    Personally, I would say it might be logical and prudent for the employers of illegal immigrants to be jailed and their assets sold to purchase return tickets. Or, maybe all government-owned land could be opened up to the illegals just like it was for our own invading ancestors a few centuries ago.

    Note: The guy who conceived and carved Mount Rushmore was a member of the KKK, and the nearby carving of Crazy Horse done by a guy who had been fired by that guy is far more impressive anyway!
    Last edited by leejosepho; 10-20-2011 at 04:44 AM.
    "Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events and small minds discuss people." --Eleanor Roosevelt

  3. #48

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    Give them land. What land? Then support everyone? and, all future generations. Raise more taxes? It is interesting to read, that we can't even hike and accidently, walk over into another's country without being arrested for years and years, and all be called a spy. Yet, you want to give them land.

    I got to get a drink. A coffee.

    ...and, by the way, those hikers, they or their families or the US, paid tons of money to get them back, not a plane fare.

    Ian wants to change our country to socialism, if that is the case, then, we must change it all, close all the borders. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
    Last edited by Cookie; 10-20-2011 at 05:42 AM.

  4. #49

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    Do you realize we could not possibly jail them all? The Inns are full. Maybe, England could imprison them, and pay. Look at the size of that palace! Lots of rooms which could be put to good use. 600 hundred rooms!


    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
    I was not meaning to give you a hard time there. Please forgive!

    Personally, I would say it might be logical and prudent for the employers of illegal immigrants to be jailed and their assets sold to purchase return tickets. Or, maybe all government-owned land could be opened up to the illegals just like it was for our own invading ancestors a few centuries ago.

    Note: The guy who conceived and carved Mount Rushmore was a member of the KKK, and the nearby carving of Crazy Horse done by a guy who had been fired by that guy is far more impressive anyway!
    Last edited by Cookie; 10-20-2011 at 06:11 AM.

  5. #50

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    This is it Ian? This is all you can say what is wrong or bad with your own country, England, and, amazingly, you can cite lots & lots & lots for my country, the USA... Do you have the freedom to say what you want about your own homeland?

    And, remember your #8 does not apply, because you got your information wrong about the US on that one. I explained that well, in another post to you. So, you only have 7 things.

    Actually, #4 is thrown out as well, because my city & and I am sure, my city is not the only one, we already have speed cameras. So, you got 6 things.

    Continue on. Actually, all of yours is mimicking all of the US. The weather, the college expense, the prescription costs, the dentist coverage; those do not apply. So you got 2, you don't like your bars closing early, and you don't like the farmers having a gun being able to protect their livestock & livelyhood.

    You got 2. Only 2. I asked for "20", since, you are fully, ready, willing and able to cite so much more about the US. I believe in being fair. Do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Some bad things about England:

    1) the weather.

    2) college education: students now have to pay up to $15,000 ($5,000 per year) for a three-year university course whereas before the Government would pay all tuition fees.

    3) prescritpion charges: while all prescription drug fees are paid for by the taxpayer, people now have to pay a flat fee of $10 every time they pick up a prescription drug order (unless they are over 65 and then the fee is waived).

    4) speed cameras (coming to America soon).

    5) drinking hours: bars must close by 11pm.

    6) Gun control. Farmers are allowed to own shotguns. No-one should be allowed to own a gun.

    7) Dentistry. Most dentistry is private (except for children) but unlke in the US there is no real insurance coverage for it. So all expenses tend to be out of pocket.

    8) MOTs: Every car over four years old in England must have a safety inspection at a garage every year. This means you don't find old, cheap cars driving around like you do in America where safety inspections are only done once when the car is purchased. I drive a car in the US that I probably would not be allowed to drive in England and it saves me a lot of bucks being allowed to drive an old rusty clunker.
    Last edited by Cookie; 10-20-2011 at 06:41 AM.

  6. #51
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Do you realize we could not possibly jail them all? The Inns are full. Maybe, England could imprison them, and pay. Look at the size of that palace! Lots of rooms which could be put to good use. 600 hundred rooms!
    Ian, some interesting articles re Britain (I am going to stop calling it Great Britain because it is not) in yesterday's and todays Wall Street Journal. Yesterday a discussion on how Britain's 20% sales tax and other share the wealth philosophies are resulting in 6% inflation and frozen incomes. Today, how Rolls Royce struggles to find skilled workers even though it pays very premium wages.

    The solution, Ian, is to have people stop whining, take responsibility for their own lives, get educated, and get a job. The unemployment rate for college graduates is 6%. This country's community college and university system is second to none and can give anyone skills to advance if properly used. But it cannot give ambition-we are on our own for that. Further evidence of our failed social/entitlement policies is shown by the fact that nearly 70% of blacks are being born into single parent households and the appalling rate at which these offspring, due to lack of adequate role models, commit crimes and are being imprisoned.

    I continue to wait for your views on what to do with Greece, Italy and the other countries which have failed because of social and economic policies similar to those promoted by yourself.

  7. #52
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Their debts are much smaller than yours.

    This crisis was not caused by their excess. It was caused by crumbling tax revenues and tighter credit on the back of a housing crash that started in the US and spread to the rest of the world.

    The cause, therefore, was lack of regulation. Not too much of it.

    The solution is to raise taxes on those that can afford it and for countries to cooperate. That means bailouts. It means another bailout for America too. This time, to help the States' budgets.

    It should also mean we get rid of the pesky States and have Washington control because that would be cheaper and more efficient. All Americans have very similar preferences anyway, so the notion of States is just a romantic throwback to a past that no longer exists.

    If Europe falls to this crisis, America will soon follow.

    Britain's 20% sales tax
    Apples and oranges. We have a high sales tax, you have MASSIVE property taxes in some States even on cars! There really is no difference. But the Cold War made you think there is. You were tricked.

    get educated
    Now I agree. But the smart thing to do would be to have taxpayers pay. That way there is an incentive to go to college and taxpayers actually make a return when those educated get good jobs and pay more in higher taxes later on in life. Common sense which seems to have been lost on America.

    And Cookie, I am not a socialist. Welfare capitalism makes a lot of sense though. Dog eat dog is not working. We need to help each other. And God and charity are not up to the task. We need Government. Big Government.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 10-20-2011 at 08:41 AM.

  8. #53

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    Big gov equals, big problems... where's the list?

  9. #54
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Their debts are much smaller than yours.

    This crisis was not caused by their excess. It was caused by crumbling tax revenues and tighter credit on the back of a housing crash that started in the US and spread to the rest of the world.

    The cause, therefore, was lack of regulation. Not too much of it.

    The solution is to raise taxes on those that can afford it and for countries to cooperate. That means bailouts. It means another bailout for America too. This time, to help the States' budgets.

    It should also mean we get rid of the pesky States and have Washington control because that would be cheaper and more efficient. All Americans have very similar preferences anyway, so the notion of States is just a romantic throwback to a past that no longer exists.

    If Europe falls to this crisis, America will soon follow.



    Apples and oranges. We have a high sales tax, you have MASSIVE property taxes in some States even on cars! There really is no difference. But the Cold War made you think there is. You were tricked.



    Now I agree. But the smart thing to do would be to have taxpayers pay. That way there is an incentive to go to college and taxpayers actually make a return when those educated get good jobs and pay more in higher taxes later on in life. Common sense which seems to have been lost on America.

    And Cookie, I am not a socialist. Welfare capitalism makes a lot of sense though. Dog eat dog is not working. We need to help each other. And God and charity are not up to the task. We need Government. Big Government.
    I am re-reading an excellent book on an early example of British "welfare capitalism." It is called Empire of the Bay, and I think the author is Peter Newman. It is about the history of the Hudson's Bay Company. In the late 1600's, Britain transferred sole control and an exclusive monopoly on all land which drains into Hudson Bay to the Hudson Bay Company. This covers a region from The Rocky Mountains in the West to Labrador in the East. This monopoly carried with it the responsibility for providing for the native population. Instead of utilizing genocide as we did here in the United States, it was to the economic avantage of the Hudson Bay Compay to utilize the natives as trappers, hence the slaughter that went on in our West was to a considerable extent avoided.

    There is no doubt that Canada's natives suffered abuse, but much of this came from the Oblates and Anglicans who had the same camoflauged penchant for inflicting pain that many religious people have.

    The point is that "welfare capitalism" connotes a contribution from all towards society, and as I see it you propose rewarding all while only some contribute.

    And Greece's "crumbling" tax revenues is not caused by us but by it's citizen's flagrant avoidance of paying taxes and its insistence on receiving government pensions. Again, this is a character issue and they are on their own for that.

    Many of the remote trading posts opened by the Hudson Bay Company remain in operation today, now under the ownership of The North West Company. Its stock trades on the Toronto exchange and I believe that it is the only publically owned company which still engages in the fur trade with natives.

  10. #55
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    I accept all donations like Tom. Send to me. lol.

    Bob, you got to remember though, if you unjustly tax the rich, only because they are rich and can afford it, you are literally, taking away the American Dream.

    Whatever tax is imposed, it has to be fair to everyone, not just because you are rich, you pay more; or poor, you pay less. That is socialism.

    Some people do not believe the American Dream ever existed or, it is gone. When you wake up, and not jailed for something you said, you wrote, you did; compare, it to waking up in a country, where your world is a living nightmare. You can't accept the Pulitzer or a Nobel, that is living without any dream.

    If you start to make it a one-size fit all govn, you gained nothing and you lost it all.
    I do believe what IS fair is a flat rate tax, where everybody pays the same percentage of thier income and do away with all the crazy deductions we have now, which are probably greatly abused. I'm not in favor of paying more taxes because you HAVE more, just based on earned income and capital gains. Every body pays the same sales tax rate no matter what you earn, but it works that the more you spend the more tax you pay. I'm not saying I like that guy Cain (or not), but I like his 9 9 9 plan; It makes lots of sense to me. No deductions for having 13 kids legal or not. No punishment for being wealthy at all. Now, how that will solve our economy problems, is another story. Spending has to be controlled. No freebies to lazy ass shits. I give generously to charities to help the truly unfortunate. I do believe in the American Dream, and have gotten to a happy point; not wealthy, but I am able to buy/do what I like. No boats, fancy cars, nothing extravagant.
    Never had the desire to be flashy.
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  11. #56
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    you propose rewarding all while only some contribute
    No, I propose rewarding those with more less (than they get now) because they don't need it with all contributing and the rich contributing more (than they contribute now).

    For example, rich seniors should not get Medicare. That's ridiculous. And rich income earners should not benefit from tax loopholes. That's also ridiculous.

    But the bottom line is that voters should decide. And with many Americans getting poorer, I would hope most would be with me on this one.

    We've tried it your way and we're hardly living in a period of unrivalled prosperity, eh?

    Time for a change.

    Thank goodness we have a man at the top fit for the job.

    Second term! Second term!
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 10-20-2011 at 11:07 AM.

  12. #57
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    No, I propose rewarding those with more less (than they get now) because they don't need it with all contributing and the rich contributing more (than they contribute now).

    For example, rich seniors should not get Medicare. That's ridiculous. And rich income earners should not benefit from tax loopholes. That's also ridiculous.

    But the bottom line is that voters should decide. And with many Americans getting poorer, I would hope most would be with me on this one.

    We've tried it your way and we're hardly living in a period of unrivalled prosperity, eh?

    Time for a change.

    Thank goodness we have a man at the top fit for the job.

    Second term! Second term!
    Those who have paid into Medicare for many years, like myself are entitled to it. I hate that word. Did you know, Ian, that when you are retired and 65 or older, and have health insurance, that they will not pay your doctor until they recieve a copy of Medicare's Explanation of Benefits statement? How many people are wealthy enough to pay ALL thier medical expenses out of their own pocket? Medicare is primary coverage when you're 65 or older. No Medicare, no secondary coverage payment to medical provider.

    Ian, please go back home and mind your own business.
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  13. #58
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    I am re-reading an excellent book on an early example of British "welfare capitalism." It is called Empire of the Bay, and I think the author is Peter Newman. It is about the history of the Hudson's Bay Company. In the late 1600's, Britain transferred sole control and an exclusive monopoly on all land which drains into Hudson Bay to the Hudson Bay Company. This covers a region from The Rocky Mountains in the West to Labrador in the East. This monopoly carried with it the responsibility for providing for the native population. Instead of utilizing genocide as we did here in the United States, it was to the economic avantage of the Hudson Bay Compay to utilize the natives as trappers, hence the slaughter that went on in our West was to a considerable extent avoided.
    The slaughter was avoided because the English were too pig headed to adapt to the native outdoor survival methods. They ate their salt pork in wool jackets and froze to death like flies. Stayed at the camp and let the REAL MEN bring in the goods, giving them guns, files and needles in exchange.

    Read Samuel Hearnes journal from the 1600's. had to find. Then for real fun, do Farley Mowats trilogy on all the english attempts to find the northwest passage. Horror stories.....Amazing reading. And do the story of that Freak English Sir Franklin, who made his men hike out with his silverware in their pockets, and to every man died terrible deaths.

    http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Passion-...136007&sr=1-12

    not sure if thats the correct one, but dig in there.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 10-20-2011 at 11:46 AM.

  14. #59
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    The slaughter was avoided because the English were too pig headed to adapt to the native outdoor survival methods. They ate their salt pork in wool jackets and froze to death like flies. Stayed at the camp and let the REAL MEN bring in the goods, giving them guns, files and needles in exchange.

    Read Samuel Hearnes journal from the 1600's. had to find. Then for real fun, do Farley Mowats trilogy on all the english attempts to find the northwest passage. Horror stories.....Amazing reading. And do the story of that Freak English Sir Franklin, who made his men hike out with his silverware in their pockets, and to every man died terrible deaths.

    http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Passion-...136007&sr=1-12

    not sure if thats the correct one, but dig in there.
    Farley is hard to beat. A rare combination of a liberal who hates government bueracrats. As he should, given the way Canada's bueracrats extirpriated an entire population of primitive inland eskimo, the Ihalmiut, in our lifetimes, and within a four hour flight of Chicago. The Tundra is a true classic of exploration literature. And Hearne's walk from Hudson Bay to the Coppermine makes Lewis and Clark look like the academic wimps which they were before their publicists got involved. And Hearne did it 30 years earlier while in the employ of the Hudson Bay Company, with profit as his motive.

  15. #60
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    No Medicare, no secondary coverage payment to medical provider.
    Bob's right. Let's end this silliness.

    America needs a public option.

    The slaughter was avoided because the English were too pig headed to adapt to the native outdoor survival methods.
    I'm amazed by this reference to "English". You were all English, or from around there, back then. English-American is a better term. Or European-American, perhaps.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 10-20-2011 at 04:27 PM.

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