3M recommends pressure tank size for their CBF100 carbon filter

It's good to know at what point to test the free chlorine. I made the mistake of testing after the carbon filter.

I have tested immediately after the contact tank, and it's 'off the scale'; my scale only goes to 3ppm.

The feed-pump that was installed is adjustable, but I've adjusted it to the minimum, and I've diluted the solution to 1:6.

According to my calculations, pumping @ 5.4GPM, with the Stingray feeder set at the minimum or approx. 10gal/day, the water going into the contact tank is @ 11ppm chlorine.

Should I simply continue trying lower concentrations, using trial and error, to obtain the lower free-chlorine ppm needed coming out of the contact tank?

Continue to lower your concentrations. A gallon of chlorox bleach is 65000 PPM.

Without a CSV the pump performs according to the curve. So a 10 GPM pump might start out pumping 12 GPM at 40 PSI, and by the time it shuts off at 60 PSI will be down to 10 GPM flow. So that is an average of 11 GPM as far as your injector pump is concerned.

Yes........................

Ok, that figures. Thanks.

About this Chemilizer injection pump that ditttohead mentioned...

ditttohead said:

Check out the Chemilizer HN55 pump, it uses the water flow to pump, and it has a set ratio. it is approximately $200 plus a chemical storage tank. The most common is 128-1 ratio. For every 128 gallons of water the house uses, it will pump 1 gallon from the chemical tank. Mixing a gallon of bleach with 35-45 gallons should get you into the 5-10 PPM range.

Click to expand...

At this time I have only a 5 gal solution tank. Is there any reason I shouldn't use the Chemilizer HN55 with 1:500 injection? I figure I could then use approx. 1:12 clorox to water to give me around 10ppm, and I'd only need to refill the 5g tank about once a month. Any problem with this higher concentration at a 1:500 injection?

Has anyone here got any experience with the Chemilizer? In their docs they suggest that the injector needs to be installed before the pressure switch. I'd like to have a branch coming off the line before the injector, to connect my non-chlorinated garden-hose, and it would be tidier to install it all after the pressure tank.

Another question, the Chemilizer is installed with 3/4" hose connections. I have 1" pipe from the pressure tank, which goes all the way through the softener system. Will reducing to 3/4", and then expanding back to 1" here at the injector, cause problems with noise or otherwise? Does this kind of 'compression and decompression' make trouble?

Thanks for all the help with this guys, it sure is nice to have knowledgeable input, trying to get this system right.

You do not want water to flow backwards through an injector.

Bleach sitting in a tank will weaken over time. I think not adding new solution before then will be a problem in keeping your free chlorine where it should be.

Gary Slusser said:

You do not want water to flow backwards through an injector.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I made it clear how I'd like to install the HN55.

This is the illustration from the Chemilizer install manual:
(the manual is at: http://www.hydrosystemsco.com/images/instruction-sheets/chemilizer/CH_hn55_manual.pdf )

but this is how I'd prefer to install it to have non-softened water for gardening etc. -


Is there something with this that could make the water flow backwards through the injector?

I don't understand why they would specify installing it before the pressure switch. I haven't had a reply to emails, I might have to call them.

Not as long as the center stop valve of the 3 way by pass is closed.

Pressure tanks rarely provide sufficient retention time.

hcw3 said:

I don't understand why they would specify installing it before the pressure switch. I haven't had a reply to emails, I might have to call them.

Click to expand...

Just a guess, but perhaps the HN55 can create a pressure drop or something and cause the house pressure to deviate from the pressure switch settings.

Let us know how it works, I've been considering one of these but I would also need to connect it in the manner you show so I can get non-chlorinated water outside for irrigation.

Well, I spoke with a tech at the company, who really didn't help me with my main questions at all.

He was much more interested in telling me that they don't intend the HN55 as a 'residential' unit. A few years ago it did have the appropriate ratings for domestic household water, from NWS etc, but no longer.

He told me that it isn't really intended as a 'continuous duty' device - it's more something that would be used perhaps seasonally in agriculture, or industry. I'm not sure that agrees with the company's description in their literature, though.

Anyone know of a device that would work on the same principle, and is intended for household water?

Is this such an unusual request, to have a pipe branching off with unprocessed water?

How about a flow switch in the irrigation line that cuts power to a standard chemical injection pump when there is flow to the irrigation?

I dont really see why the drawing you did would not work. The pump is a diaphragm style, it doesnt care where the pressure tank is. It is a flow based pump system, you could install a check valve after the pump to ensure water does not flow backwards through the pump head, but even that would be a non issue, the amount of water that would flow backwards should be less than a few ounces. Considering the low cost and simplicity of the pump, I would try it.

valveman said:

How about a flow switch in the irrigation line that cuts power to a standard chemical injection pump when there is flow to the irrigation?

Click to expand...

Doing that, turning off a solution feeder pump, if water were used in the house when the solution pump was off, that will cause a serious decrease in the free chlorine residual and that is a difficult thing to correct. Reduced free chlorine residual will eventually lead to incomplete oxidation of whatever the solution feeder is used for including failure in a bacteria control application. That can cause any filter to not work correctly. because the mineral will load up with what was supposed to be oxidized and/or be contaminated with bacteria causing the mineral to fail and need to be replaced. If there is a softener after the filter, then the resin can get loaded up and the softener won't work. Then the wife is pissed and enough of that could cause the guy to lose the house thru divorce and the kids to end up in jail etc..

I agree with Gary on this one. Once the residual gets out of whack, getting it corrected will be an issue and the eventual failure of the system. Ditto, I came to the same conclusion that you did. As drawn I see no reason not to go ahead with that set up and I doubt that I would bother with a check valve either although for the cost it wouldn't hurt.

Gary Slusser said:

Doing that, turning off a solution feeder pump, if water were used in the house when the solution pump was off, that will cause a serious decrease in the free chlorine residual and that is a difficult thing to correct. Reduced free chlorine residual will eventually lead to incomplete oxidation of whatever the solution feeder is used for including failure in a bacteria control application. That can cause any filter to not work correctly. because the mineral will load up with what was supposed to be oxidized and/or be contaminated with bacteria causing the mineral to fail and need to be replaced. If there is a softener after the filter, then the resin can get loaded up and the softener won't work. Then the wife is pissed and enough of that could cause the guy to lose the house thru divorce and the kids to end up in jail etc..

Click to expand...

OK then don't use the flow switch to turn off the chlorinator. Don't want you getting a divorse, losing the house, or the kids to end up in jail.

I have used a similar device for injecting fertilizer. It works good but needs regular maintenance. Had to replace o-rings and stuff every year or so if I remember correctly.

I have to say, the plumber that installed the system suggested a flow-switch. I've learned to question all his work!

Yes, maintenance is one of my concerns, I need fewer chores. Now that I'm old enough to join the AARP, I'm trying to find ways to simplify my life, not complicate it!

If it's a matter of just a couple of easy o-rings, that's fine, but if I have to thoroughly disassemble it annually, that won't do.

Then there's the point they make in their docs about possibly needing to filter bad well-water...

My water comes out fairly clear untreated, before the system, but it is sulfur-smelly and has a tendency to stain the shower and toilet bowl red. No sediment to speak of.

Would you expect high iron or sulfur to wear rubber parts prematurely?

And my wife's still with me, thank god, and hoping I get out of the basement soon... The kid, well, he's smart enough to know he doesn't want to be a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none, like his father, and hasn't ended up in jail! ;-)

All chlorine systems require maintenance on more than an annual basis.

If you have less than say 3-4 ppm of iron, an air pump system will get rid of it and the H2S. There is little maintenance with that type system. You can find them with a search for "air pump" + H2S or something close to that.

I'm glad to hear the family is still intact, good job.

Gary Slusser said:

If you have less than say 3-4 ppm of iron, an air pump system will get rid of it and the H2S. There is little maintenance with that type system. You can find them with a search for "air pump" + H2S or something close to that.

Click to expand...

You know, I was looking into 'air treatment' a number of years ago, and I always came up with difficult or near-impossible methods. I didn't even look into it last year, before I ordered this system. These air-pump systems make more sense, for ease of installation, anyway.

But if I remember, my water's iron levels are higher than you've specified. I'll have to see if I can obtain the results of my water test, and look into aeration again.

Would my existing 120gal chlorine contact-tank be useable as the 'vent tank' in the Air-Pump-System at http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/aeration/airpump.htm on QualityWaterAssociates website? And is there any reason that my 3M CBF100 charcoal filter wouldn't be good enough as the filter?

An air pump system makes a lot of sense when compared to an air injection system. The air pump is much less maintenance intensive and usually works where air injection won't, or doesn't work well.

The oxidation takes place in the vent tank and not the plumbing to an air injection's retention tan. The plumbing in an air injection system usually blocks up causing reduced gpm for the filter to backwash with. Then the filter fails, and eventually any softener past it.

Yes you should be able to reuse your tanks but I would suggest Centaur carbon instead of regular carbon.

I hope you are aware that I am out of business.