(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Democracy

  1. #1
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,781

    Default Democracy

    Having had a few exchanges with Americans recently, I'm a little worried that America doesn't quite understand the concept of democracy.

    It seems that some individuals here do not want to be told what to do by Government, even if the democratic process means that they must abide by the wishes of the majority.

    Europe gets it. Why not America?

  2. #2
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    northfork, california
    Posts
    3,261

    Default

    Because we are bred from a pack of world roaming wolves that left their homeland to get out from under the thumb of religious repression and hopeless conditions in serfdom. I follow most of the rules, but but some big bends in the gov. looking over my construction shoulder.

    A sparrow or rat can build a nice house, without a permit or oversight, and so should we - like in Mendocino county, California. They pay a fee and the house gets registered as a buyer beware.

  3. #3
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,781

    Default

    If there is one thing that can be said, you were very religious. One might say the fanatics of the period.

    What I am discovering however about your history, and it is fascinating, is prohibition.

    It was adopted by "established" Americans of the time largely as a response to get back at the immigrants of the day who were mostly Irish Catholics and Jews from Eastern Europe (many of whom enjoyed a drink or two).

    Rather than embrace freedom, a few people started smashing up the saloons in protest at booze.

    Nothing much seems to change in America does it? Yesterday's immigrants become tomorrow's citizens, all of whom want to take it out on the next lot that come to this Great Country's shores.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 10-06-2011 at 01:22 PM.

  4. #4

    Default

    The United States is a Republic. In a democracy the rule is by an omnipotent majority.

    A Republic on the other hand has a very different purpose and an entirely different system of government. Its purpose is to control the majority strictly to protect the individual’s unalienable rights (and for the protection of the rights of the minority) and the liberties of people in general. The definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally limited government of the representative type, created by a written Constitution--adopted by the people and changeable (from its original meaning) by them only by its amendment--with its powers divided between three separate Branches: Executive, Legislative and Judicial.

    It is you that doesn't "get it" Ian.

  5. #5
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,781

    Default

    Inalienable rights are meaningless because rights arise from the actions of government, or evolve from tradition, and neither of these can provide anything inalienable.

    It's just nonsense on stilts. The only reason you have "inalienable rights" in the Declaration of Independence is because the British were white, Anglo, and Protestant, just as you were. The traitors, therefore, had to have some other basis on which to justify their independence so they made one up.

    America might do better to focus on instead human rights, rather than those handed down from a "Creator".

    It would do well with dealing with the right to work, first.

    We need more Federal jobs in America to do the Government's good work.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 10-06-2011 at 04:17 PM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Inalienable rights are meaningless because rights arise from the actions of government, or evolve from tradition, and neither of these can provide anything inalienable.
    Wrong. Flat out wrong. Our Rights come from God/nature (depending on your religious views). Government does not grant rights, it can ONLY restrict rights. Our government exists becasue of man, not the other way around. I suggest you read our constitution before attempting to discuss it.

    You truly do not understand America, Americans or our form of government. Please recuse yourself from further discussion on this topic until you do some homework. Otherwise you will continue to appear uninformed and biased.

  7. #7
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,781

    Default

    These are well-established views by philosophers that have written on the subject.

    There is no right or wrong or bias. There are just thoughts and opinions.

    That's the way your Constitution was written. To be interpretted. That's why you have a Supreme Court.

    It's a bit like the Bible. Which is why you have churches.

  8. #8
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,773

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    These are well-established views by philosophers that have written on the subject.

    There is no right or wrong or bias. There are just thoughts and opinions.

    That's the way your Constitution was written. To be interpretted. That's why you have a Supreme Court.

    It's a bit like the Bible. Which is why you have churches.
    Name:  wig powdering.jpg
Views: 67
Size:  34.7 KB could not resist or desist on this
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    These are well-established views by philosophers that have written on the subject.
    Yes, I particularly enjoy Charles de Secondat, baron de Montesquieu. I suggest you study-up this very important philosopher who had a profound impact on the US Constitution.

  10. #10
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,781

    Default

    Thanks Gary.

    And welcome back Bob.

    Surely it must be time to amend the Constitution again? It's no longer fit for the times.

  11. #11
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Iowa/Ontario
    Posts
    186

    Default

    Ian, I'm with Gary on this one. The due process and bill of attainder clauses in the constitution combine to permit an individual to do whatever he wants provided that there is not an existing law which prohibits the activity. Government does not authorize individuals- Government regulates individuals.

    You should also read D.C. v Heller, the decision prohibiting the blanket prohibition of handguns in Washington, D.C. It contains an interesting history of firearms and firearms regulation, including more than a few references to how we used the same to whoop your ancestors' arses.

    For a somewhat related argument, stay tuned to the litigation working its way through the courts re the commerce clause and the ability or lack of ability of the federal government to use the commerce clause as authority to regulate largely intra-state activities. The feds may get their hand slapped on this one.

    One of the things that I have yet to figure out about Canada is its sheepishness re gun control. Canada passed extremely restrictive handgun and long gun regulations, and Canadians for the most part did nothing except comply. If national laws like that were passed here (which thankfully because of Heller they cannot) there would quite possibly be another civil war. Perhaps Canada's ambivalence is explained by its history of taking orders from short old ladies who wear silly hats, have worthless offspring, and like yippy lapdogs.

  12. #12
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    northfork, california
    Posts
    3,261

    Default

    The only bibles should be those writen by Anne Rand. She nailed the manner of proper human nature and action perfectly.

    Those that started prohibition were a pathetic pack of religious nut balls and massive hypocrites. darkest day in US history.

    Although my grandfather profited well by using part of the tailor shop and dry cleaning back alley garage as a storage space for moonshine for the still operators. I think sodomy is still a crime in most states, even between married couples.

  13. #13
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Iowa/Ontario
    Posts
    186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    The only bibles should be those writen by Anne Rand. She nailed the manner of proper human nature and action perfectly.

    Those that started prohibition were a pathetic pack of religious nut balls and massive hypocrites. darkest day in US history.

    Although my grandfather profited well by using part of the tailor shop and dry cleaning back alley garage as a storage space for moonshine for the still operators. I think sodomy is still a crime in most states, even between married couples.
    I agree with your taste in literature, but sodomy laws criminalizing conduct between consenting adults were found unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court in Lawrence v Texas. This decision has been widely relied upon in judicial decisions requiring states to recognize gay marriage. My view is that if Bill and Hillary Clinton are deemed capable of entering into the sacred bonds of marriage all human consenting adults are likewise qualified.

  14. #14
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,773

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Thanks Gary.

    And welcome back Bob.

    Surely it must be time to amend the Constitution again? It's no longer fit for the times.
    from my twin brother, not me:

    Ian AKA Dr. Utopia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVh75...layer_embedded#!
    Last edited by BobL43; 10-08-2011 at 12:24 PM.
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  15. #15

    Default

    Um, you may not understand democracy, you may even think, Americans do not understand democracy, but, this articles states that China does:

    Nearly half of China's wealthiest citizens are considering emigrating, with the United States and Canada the most popular destinations, according to a new report from the authors of China's rich list.

    The survey by the Bank of China and the Hurun Report, which publishes luxury magazines and runs a research institute, found that 46 percent of Chinese with assets worth more than 10 million yuan ($1.6 million) were considering moving abroad.

    Another 14 percent had already begun the process, it said. Many said they were seeking a better education for their children and cited concerns about the security of their assets in China.

    Nearly a third of the respondents said they already had investments overseas, in many cases to enable them to emigrate. Some countries offer residency to foreign citizens who are prepared to invest large sums.

    High inflation and the difficulty of investing overseas were also cited in the survey, which took in 980 people in 18 Chinese cities.

    More than 30 years of booming economic growth have allowed some Chinese to build up vast fortunes once unthinkable in the nominally communist nation.

    China now has 271 dollar billionaires, according to Hurun's 2011 rich list, up from 189 last year, despite the global economic crisis.

    The latest report said that 960,000 people in China are now worth more than 10 million yuan, up by 9.7 percent from 2010.

    Many of the country's wealthiest citizens have made their money in China's construction and property sectors, as well as a growing domestic retail market.

    But the rigid education system, rising living costs and widespread corruption have led many to look for homes abroad.

    http://news.yahoo.com/almost-half-ch...063620562.html
    Last edited by Cookie; 11-01-2011 at 07:10 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •