crawlspce( unheated but insulated) installing waterlines and drains

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Tameria11

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Hi
Have not been here for 3/4 years. Glad it is still going strong. I have had to buy home ( separated!) I have a partial basement where my main comes in and my stack is there as well. I am remodeling Kit and Bath and need to know how to insulate lines in an unheated dirt crawl space. I move today so tips asap would be great
Thanks Dave
 
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Gary Swart

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Are you under the impression that insulation will provide heat? If so, you need to revisit the chapter on insulation.
 

Tameria11

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I am aware insulation does not supply heat, A guy up here Northern Ontario( -45 in winter often) said I should wrap the hot and cold together and than insult around pipes to hold the heat. I am thinking i need some type of heated water line device. any helpful suggestions would be appreciated.
 

Jastori

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The the temperature in an insulated crawlspace should (ideally) not drop below freezing. If it does, I would focus on improving the crawlspace insulation (especially stopping drafts), rather than trying to heat the water pipes. If the crawlspace is that cold, the floor above (living space?) must be very uncomfortable. Are there any heating pipes / ducts running through the crawlspace?
 

Pipehacker

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The year around Ontario lake homes that I am familiar with all have high end electrical heat lines to keep the water lines open, and they do not work all the time. What I would do is contact an experienced local plumber and get local advice. It is difficult to imagine or advise re dealing with -45 temperatures unless you have actual experience with the same.
 

Tameria11

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Thanks for the info, I live on the shores of Northern Lake Superiior and we have days of -45, I will put 2 heat ducts of my main trunk into the crawl space and that should keep it above freezing.
 

LLigetfa

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I will put 2 heat ducts of my main trunk into the crawl space and that should keep it above freezing.
NO! Connecting air from the house to the crawlspace turns it into conditioned space and the building code has specific requirements for it. Unless it already meets code for conditioned space, I suggest you use electric baseboard heaters. Code requires that the thermostat be located up in the living space so you would need a remote sensing thermostat.

Whatever you do, make sure you keep the temperature low enough in the crawlspace to not draw moisture out of the dirt floor. The dirt floor should really be covered with a vapour barrier. Simply running a hot air duct will not regulate the temperature in the crawlspace and could result in an excess moisture problem.
 
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LLigetfa

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BTW, I speak with some experience in this matter. I was involved in a long dispute with the Ontario New Home Warranty agency and the builder on a home I once owned North of Superior and familiarized myself with code and concepts.
 

hj

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I have NEVER heard that running heating ducts in a crawl space turned it into a "conditioned space" that had specific requirements. It would also NOT need a thermostat in the crawl space.
 

Tameria11

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Vapor barrier

NO! Connecting air from the house to the crawlspace turns it into conditioned space and the building code has specific requirements for it. Unless it already meets code for conditioned space, I suggest you use electric baseboard heaters. Code requires that the thermostat be located up in the living space so you would need a remote sensing thermostat.

Whatever you do, make sure you keep the temperature low enough in the crawlspace to not draw moisture out of the dirt floor. The dirt floor should really be covered with a vapour barrier. Simply running a hot air duct will not regulate the temperature in the crawlspace and could result in an excess moisture problem.

thanks, The dirt floor is covered and taped with a vapor barrier, There are to runs from the main trunk that are already in the crawl space. They are partily blocked to reduce heat flow. Is that ok, the walls are insultaed and vapor barriered as well, In fact they have insulation between the floor joists as well?
 

Jastori

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With a crawlspace, you usually choose between heated & unheated. When insulating, you usually choose between walls & floor, but not both. If the walls are well insulated, and you have heat in the crawlspace, you would typically not want to insulate between the floor joists. It sounds like you are closer to a heated / conditioned crawlspace than unheated at this point. Some details (including code requirements) may get a little tricky. Where I am (Illinois), we are subject to the 2009 IECC. The 2009 IECC requires things like foundation insulation below ground. I realize that you are in a much colder climate, and likely have your own (different) code requirements.
 
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