Whirlpool Flame Lock water heaters, reviews, troubleshooting, repair and support.

Users who are viewing this thread

Cass

Plumber
Messages
5,947
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Ohio
The reason it is not drafting right is the main problem with all the units that you missed.

The air intake which is on the bottom.

It is undersized and clogs with lint, further reducing the air flow. This raises the heat / temp in the sealed burner area which is what you feel.

They now have a resettable heat sensor on the new units and send replacement burners assembly's with the resettable heat sensor on them because of thermocouple failure and the replacement cost associated with constant replacement. The old style burners might have one go bad in a lifetime.

They have not addressed the main problem.
 
Last edited:

HeyRube

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Umm, I didn't miss jack. I read the entire thread.

Yes, the air intake is not properly sized, regardless of lint clogs. That is why peeps open it up. Why they take out the sight glass. Yada. I'm saying even opened up, it still does not draft properly.

You are confusing the two issues. The thermocouples don't fail. The pilot flame is too small for the thermocouple to create the proper voltage. As they get older, they become less sensitive. It only appears to fail. If you increase the pilot jet size, and thus, the pilot flame, the thermocouple will work again.

Listen, it gets hot in there, but not that hot. A thermocouple can take the heat. It's made to. That is how I knew the thermocouple burning up issue was a red red herring. Remember, Whirlpool does NOT know the pilot jet is too small. They think the thermocouples are going bad. They should have tested them.

Resettable whatever. You gotta remember, they are trying to keep the pilot light on without the knowledge that the pilot jet is too small. Their so called fix...is why I started to look elsewhere. That fix is just plain wrong. It is wrong to approach a problem like they have done--without trying to determine why the pilot is going out. The fix itself told me that Whirlpool don't know what the problem is. They addressed the symptoms, not the problem.

I don't know where the idea came from that it was so hot in the burner area that the thermocouples were burning up. That just does not happen. It's hot in there. It is the hottest running water heater I've ever seen. But it ain't that hot. Thermocouples are not burning up. Who told you that? Whirlpool? Don't believe everything you hear. Thermocouples are not burning up!

Even if you open the entire bottom up, like an old style water heater, you will still have issues with the pilot light going out. Replacing the thermocouple with a new one WILL work in all probability. A new one is more sensitive to the flame. But that only appears to fix the issue. The real issue is the pilot flame it too small.

In case you didn't figure it out, I'll explain it to you. ALL the issues involving this water heater are due to the pilot flame being too small. The pilot jet is incorrect. That it is getting so hot inside the burner area that thermocouples are burning up is...insane. That is not happening. It is something someone, who didn't really have a firm understanding, made up to explain the symptoms they were faced with. It made sense then, but it makes no sense now.

The pilot won't stay lit. Why? The pilot jet orifice is too small. That mimics a bad thermocouple. It thinks there is no flame. But there is. It is just too small.

Everything else is bull. No, they have no addressed it. They don't even know yet.

Umm, listen. The theromcouples are not burning up.



The reason it is not drafting right is the main problem with all the units that you missed.

The air intake which is on the bottom.

It is undersized and clogs with lint, further reducing the air flow. This raises the heat / temp in the sealed burner area which is what you feel.

They now have a resettable heat sensor on the new units and send replacement burners assembly's with the resettable heat sensor on them because of thermocouple failure and the replacement cost associated with constant replacement. The old style burners might have one go bad in a lifetime.

They have not addressed the main problem.
 

Cass

Plumber
Messages
5,947
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Ohio
Umm, I didn't miss jack. I read the entire thread.

Yes, the air intake is not properly sized, regardless of lint clogs. That is why peeps open it up. Why they take out the sight glass. Yada. I'm saying even opened up, it still does not draft properly.

You are confusing the two issues. The thermocouples don't fail. The pilot flame is too small for the thermocouple to create the proper voltage. As they get older, they become less sensitive. It only appears to fail. If you increase the pilot jet size, and thus, the pilot flame, the thermocouple will work again.

Listen, it gets hot in there, but not that hot. A thermocouple can take the heat. It's made to. That is how I knew the thermocouple burning up issue was a red red herring. Remember, Whirlpool does NOT know the pilot jet is too small. They think the thermocouples are going bad. They should have tested them.

Resettable whatever. You gotta remember, they are trying to keep the pilot light on without the knowledge that the pilot jet is too small. Their so called fix...is why I started to look elsewhere. That fix is just plain wrong. It is wrong to approach a problem like they have done--without trying to determine why the pilot is going out. The fix itself told me that Whirlpool don't know what the problem is. They addressed the symptoms, not the problem.

I don't know where the idea came from that it was so hot in the burner area that the thermocouples were burning up. That just does not happen. It's hot in there. It is the hottest running water heater I've ever seen. But it ain't that hot. Thermocouples are not burning up. Who told you that? Whirlpool? Don't believe everything you hear. Thermocouples are not burning up!

Even if you open the entire bottom up, like an old style water heater, you will still have issues with the pilot light going out. Replacing the thermocouple with a new one WILL work in all probability. A new one is more sensitive to the flame. But that only appears to fix the issue. The real issue is the pilot flame it too small.

In case you didn't figure it out, I'll explain it to you. ALL the issues involving this water heater are due to the pilot flame being too small. The pilot jet is incorrect. That it is getting so hot inside the burner area that thermocouples are burning up is...insane. That is not happening. It is something someone, who didn't really have a firm understanding, made up to explain the symptoms they were faced with. It made sense then, but it makes no sense now.

The pilot won't stay lit. Why? The pilot jet orifice is too small. That mimics a bad thermocouple. It thinks there is no flame. But there is. It is just too small.

Everything else is bull. No, they have no addressed it. They don't even know yet.

Umm, listen. The theromcouples are not burning up.

OK your right, the 50-60 I have replaced didn't work because the flame was to small, so why does the new one work...more sensitive like you said, because the old one was bad...less sensitive...I suggest you go work for them and straighten them out on this issue. The units are junk and have been since they came out. Plain and simple.

BTW Whirlpool doesn't know anything because they don't make it.
 

Plumber Jim

Member
Messages
89
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Website
www.broomfieldplumber.com
I agree its not the thermocouplings getting too hot. If you actually test the thermocouple with a meter with the pilot on it you will see that it is giving enough millivolts but the gas valve is requiring more than the valve should so as soon as the thermocouple gets a little weak the pilot goes out. I have tested many that where like 17 plus millivolts and wouldn't work till i replaced them with a new one. and they were connected correctly.
 

Cass

Plumber
Messages
5,947
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Ohio
The original thermocouples had a heat sensor built into the thermocouple and would become weak or bad then requiring replacement.

The new design has a resettable heat sensor that is supposed to make resetting easier...only having to push a button.

Not sure if it will cause the millivolts to just become weak.
 

HeyRube

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hi Jim

Yeah, I concur. The thermocouplings are not burning up.

You know, when you read a long thread like this one, you'll find there is plenty of bull, and plenty of facts. The hard part is trying to figure out which is which. Your post #194, where you said the thermocouplings were not bad, struck me as fact. That is what caused me to turn my attention to the pilot light. Sometimes, a seemingly inconsequential observation, makes all the difference :)

You know, other than putting in the correct pilot jet, I guess one could replace the thermocoupling with one that has a higher voltage. Then when it ages, becomes less able to generate voltage, it would not fall off the plateau.

Regardless, I won't ever buy another. It's a POS.

I agree its not the thermocouplings getting too hot. If you actually test the thermocouple with a meter with the pilot on it you will see that it is giving enough millivolts but the gas valve is requiring more than the valve should so as soon as the thermocouple gets a little weak the pilot goes out. I have tested many that where like 17 plus millivolts and wouldn't work till i replaced them with a new one. and they were connected correctly.
 
Last edited:

MG

New Member
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Illinois - Near St. Louis
Well today I get to make "the call"...someone is taking this Cesspool piece of garbage back. I don't care if it is Cesspool or Lowes.

I got the reset switch to work once last night - went through one cycle and then crapped out. I doubt its dirty under there - I rubbed my fingers on the screen and they weren't dirty at all.

I'm going to HD today and buy a GE-Rheem...enough with this shinola.
 

JohnINLafayette

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
The best thing I ever did was replace that WP with a Bradford White. Going on 3 months now and I don't even think about my water heater.
 

jriedl

New Member
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Need help with Gas Valve /Thermostat Replacement

I too have one of the Whirlpool Flame Lock water heaters that I've had for over 5 years now. I just recently had a problem where the pilot light won't stay lit and Whirlpool sent me a whole replacement assembly that I replaced with no problem, but the pilot light still wouldn't stay lit. I troubleshot per the flow chart supplied and called Whirlpool with my troubleshooting results and they overnighted a Gas Valve/Thermostat assembly to me. My question is there is a plastic cover that seems to be fitted over the probe that goes inside the water heater. The instructions don't say anything about removing the plastic prior to installation and naturally customer support is closed. Does anyone know if the cover should remain in place? Also, the customer servise rep didn't mention anything about the filter, but after reading all of the complaints I'm definitely going to check it.
 

livereater

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Right-threaded vs. Left-threaded

I recently received my replacement manifold per the lawsuit. No instruction were provided for those strange new parts. I stored it away as a spare part. Well, like everyone else that owns a Whirlpool Flame-Lock, I ended up using it sooner than later. I only wish I had found this forum before I tried to put it in myself. When I began to screw in the thermocouple nut - without the adapter provided in the kit - I had the hardest time getting that new right-threaded nut to go in the left-threaded hole in the controller. Imagine that! I'm thinking, "Those idiots can't even get their parts to match!" So I did the unthinkable and just tried to start that left-handed nut into the hole as if the nut was right-threaded. And guess what! It went in with little resistance! I'm thinking to myself, "Now I could have sworn that puppy was left-handed when I took it off. Maybe, it wasn't." It was only after reading this forum that my fears were confirmed: I obviously re-threaded the nut or the hole. Either way my water heater is working again. My question to you all is this. How necessary is the reset switch? And if it IS necessary, should I try to "re-thread" yet once again?
 

Redwood

Master Plumber
Messages
7,335
Reaction score
13
Points
0
Location
Connecticut
My question to you all is this. How necessary is the reset switch? And if it IS necessary, should I try to "re-thread" yet once again?

None of this is necessary when you rip that junker out and slap in a new Rheem or Bradford-White.
 

Redwood

Master Plumber
Messages
7,335
Reaction score
13
Points
0
Location
Connecticut
If you have not submitted your claim yet under the terms of the class action lawsuit...

You are officially screwed!

June 28, 2008 Postmark Deadline for Claim Submission

Not that their Fix it Kit really did anything for you anyway!
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
I recently received my replacement manifold per the lawsuit. No instruction
And if it IS necessary, should I try to "re-thread" yet once again?


I have got two replacement kits myself,
they came from customers who feared to
fool with the water heater in the first place....

we tore it out and put in the bradford ,

how you were able to crank that theromcoupling into that
valve is a mystery to me...,

and this all makes me wonder , no instructions in the box
and with most people really not capable of messing with a gas valve
or thermostat, ...

who will be the first person to try sue whirlpool
when they burn their own house down....or blow it up??
 
Last edited:

livereater

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Right-threaded vs. Left-threaded

I suppose I understand your hesitation in answering my question given the issues of liability this water heater is surrounded with. My understanding is that the purpose of the reset switch is to lengthen the life of the thermocouple. I will, therefore, leave the reset switch dormant until either 1) the next time I have to replace the thermocouple or 2) I decide to replace the water heater. The orifice theory intrigues me. I hope to hear more discussion about that.
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
their high limit re-set switch....




the high limit was designed to keep the thing from overheating.....
and of course it is totally half assed designed
on the whirlpool unit....

considering that Whirlpool sends this kit out to
un-lliscensed amatures to install themselves
without instructions...

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/
 
Last edited:
Messages
45
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Texas
who will be the first person to try sue whirlpool when they burn their own house down....or blow it up??

LOL...well it obviously won't be me. The paper trail would get me laughed out of any court in the world. The only thing I'm missing is a MySpace or FaceBook page with pictures showing me doing all those sneaky things to the nasty bugger. But to me it has become a kind of duel with the devil. My warranty is in the last few years and I will be victorious over this devil. I haven't had any problems since I got the new manifold kit installed...and haven't cleaned any of the filters since then, either. I've also got a few spare old-style thermocouples I browbeat Whirlpool into sending me, totally free of charge. I'll yank the adapter off and use the old thermocouples to limp across the finish line if I have to. I will not be denied my birthright to rule over this water heater!!! On a lighter note, I had an 18,000 BTU Whirlpool AC crap out on me on Independence Day. Replaced it with a Fridgidaire and used a screw gun to dissect the Whirlpool, and got $36 for it at the scrap yard (only $5 if you don't separate the metals). Guess what's going to happen to my little Flame Lock friend the first time it quits on me after the warranty expires? I'm sure the scrap yard will give me a buck or two for it...:D

considering that Whirlpool sends this kit out to un-lliscensed amatures to install themselves without instructions...

Hey! I resemble that remark!
 

Redwood

Master Plumber
Messages
7,335
Reaction score
13
Points
0
Location
Connecticut
Tim it sounds like you are trying way to hard to get your money's worth out of this thing.

Before I put that much effort into an exercise in futility...
Take helicopter flight lessons with the intention of returning it to Lowes...
Through their roof!:eek:
 
Messages
45
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Texas
Tim it sounds like you are trying way to hard to get your money's worth out of this thing.

Before I put that much effort into an exercise in futility...
Take helicopter flight lessons with the intention of returning it to Lowes...
Through their roof!:eek:

Nah...I hate to lose, and I'm just trying to have some fun along the way. Truth be told, Aside from replacing 3 or 4 thermocouples I have no real complaints with this water heater. Granted, I've abandoned Whirlpool products entirely but my gas bill isn't abnormally high, the unit doesn't leak, isn't loud and I always have plenty of hot water with a 40 gallon tank. Had Whirlpool handled this properly from the beginning I would be a happy customer. Along the way I've learned a lot about an appliance I never really thought about before. And I can now change out the burner assembly and/or thermocouple in short order and probably with my eyes closed. I think I'm down to about 30 minutes for the job. Plus, it's kind of fun causing some well deserved trouble for Whirlpool regarding this water heater. Rather than face up to a known problem they circled the wagons and pointed their guns at the customer. Too bad they only had to send out the conversion kit to the people who joined the class action suit. I didn't, and got several thermocouples and a control valve sent to me for free. They tried to get me to pay for shipping or send them my Lowes receipts to get my money refunded, but I held fast and got what I wanted without joining the class. I call that a victory. Kudos to HeyRube for the pilot jet opening. Does anyone know if Whirlpool has since been informed of the problem, and if they have a permanent fix for all new models being sold? If that's the case, some engineer and a few quality control people should be flipping burgers now...but not my burgers!
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks