basement shower drain

[DanAK]

Thanks - your pictures and suggestions were pretty much what I'd been thinking.

I've got about 7 1/2 - 8" to the water in the trap. So it would seem I've enough room to fit in the adapter and keep the new drain low enough. Another question with this - should I refill that broken out area with something like pea gravel?

I hadn't given much consideration to drain types up till now. I just wanted one that would 'work' and not be too much trouble installing. Seems I'd have to order anything other than what I showed above. I'm not sure of their manufacturer, the local go-to plumbing supply as well as Home Depot seemed to only have those in stock. I'm open to suggestions. This shower is in an extra bath and I want it nice but nothing showroom/Fine Homebuilding type. Your work looks gorgeous. I'm planning fairly basic tho with a small seat and a nook above which I think is within my skills. I'm putting in a mid range basic shower head and controller, of course the old one wasn't anti-scald anyway and I'll redo a bit of the old inlet water lines which were rather creatively placed. I've got the time and try to not rush, ask plenty of questions and think things thru and try to keep costs down that way.

[jadnashua]

While you can do a monument bench and waterproof that and a niche with various materials, I really do suggest you look into surface membranes. Waterproofing a seat can be tricky if you haven't done it before. Also, you might consider something like a BetterBench, either a corner or side. These are pretty bulletproof, easy to install, and make the shower feel bigger since you can face it and still have someplace for your feet to go. http://innoviscorp.com/better-bench

[johnfrwhipple]

Thanks - your pictures and suggestions were pretty much what I'd been thinking.

I've got about 7 1/2 - 8" to the water in the trap. So it would seem I've enough room to fit in the adapter and keep the new drain low enough. Another question with this - should I refill that broken out area with something like pea gravel?

I hadn't given much consideration to drain types up till now. I just wanted one that would 'work' and not be too much trouble installing. Seems I'd have to order anything other than what I showed above. I'm not sure of their manufacturer, the local go-to plumbing supply as well as Home Depot seemed to only have those in stock. I'm open to suggestions. This shower is in an extra bath and I want it nice but nothing showroom/Fine Homebuilding type. Your work looks gorgeous. I'm planning fairly basic tho with a small seat and a nook above which I think is within my skills. I'm putting in a mid range basic shower head and controller, of course the old one wasn't anti-scald anyway and I'll redo a bit of the old inlet water lines which were rather creatively placed. I've got the time and try to not rush, ask plenty of questions and think things thru and try to keep costs down that way.

Can you get your hands on Mapecum Premix Fast Setting Screed Mortar? If so it's a great product for infilling around the hole. It can be placed from 1/4" to 4".

As an extra bath you can keep the install real simple with a regular clamping drain and traditional methods. Lots of my clients love the 5"x5" tile top drains as a jump up from a regular drain or basic Kerdi Drain.

Who will be doing most of the work? Do you plan to tile it yourself or hire someone?

In Vancouver we do a lot of prep work for DIYers and Builders alike. It is not rocket science building a shower but it is science.

If you can post your plans we can help you spec it right here.

Did you look over on Houzz.com for ideas?

JW

[johnfrwhipple]

If you can get your new clamping drain level with the existing slab you can still get all the benefits of a topical membrane by using a Nobel Flex Flashing and Nobel Flex TS. The build up is only 3/4" off of grade and with a little extra chipping and the right product you could set the drain 1/2" below grade and use the Mapecum Pre-Mix Fast setting mortar.



Here is a standard clamping drain set at grade level. Notice the donut or divot around the drain. This is achieved with a Divot tool which is included with the NobelFlex Flashing. These flashings are about $22.00.



The flashing looks like this.



I only need a 5' section of Nobel TS to do this entire shower floor. Nobel TS is 5' wide and not 3' like Kerdi so you almost never get a seam in a Nobel TS shower but with Kerdi it is almost a given.



We used a 5"x5" tile top in this shower. They install in replacement of your strainer that comes with your clamping drain.

If your up in Alaska your local plumbing inspector might request your liner be 30 mil - I would check to be sure. Not to push Nobel over Kerdi but it is almost three times thicker than Kerdi and meets these 30 mil shower liner requirements in every State in the US and every Province here in BC. I've used hundreds of feet of both and can say it is the better product.

Hands down.

JW

[DanAK]

Wow, thanks for the attention and advice.

I don’t have firm plans yet. This grew from tracking down a leak on the other side of the wall, which has plumbing for laundry, outside faucet as well as a bath above. I expect the downstairs was left unfinished by the original builders and done DIY at a later date. They had a fiberglass shower surround basically unattached to the house drain with some odd framing to support it as it was somewhat smaller than the space available. Before firming up the new shower plans I wanted to make sure of what is available and what I’ll need to deal with so I don’t overreach or plan something undoable. At some point we did intend to redo this bath, just not this soon. So I’d like to have something that will work with future renovation of the rest of the bath too. The toilet is kind of awkwardly situated. It looks worse in the sketch than reality but does seem to preclude a door rather than curtain without making some bigger changes.

The drain is off center by a couple inches which I figured would cause grief with a prebuilt pan, and it seems a tiled shower as big as possible in the space would be nicer which is what led to me to figure on making a mud/tile pan.

The more I look at idea books and remodel websites like Houzz and many others, the easier it is to start thinking a bit grandiose. I’d like nice, but also not too spendy and not too complicated as I am intending to do as much as I can myself. I put in a jetted tub and shower last year where previous owners had taken a regular tub/shower out to make a laundry area (which I put back downstairs). That went well. The tiling wasn’t too fancy, some design accents and a premade shelf and that was kind of fun. I’ve done various PVC as well as copper sweating then and for home plumbing repair over the years, and feel pretty comfortable with that. I’m sure no pro in any of this – not up on the latest (or even most of the old ways) but try and take the time to learn and avoid mistakes.

So my general idea for this shower is still pretty flexible and definitely open to suggestion and advice. I was planning a basic mud pan – like is shown on various how-to sites and books: preslope, rubber liner, final mortar with a 3 piece drain and tile. I can certainly see the advantage to using a material like Kerdi or Nobel and am considering that once I look a bit more at price and availability/shipping. Along with the mud pan I figured on using concrete board/wonder board with plastic behind for the walls. The space above the ledge from the foundation blocks just seemed a natural spot to have space for a decent sized nook. I’m aware as an outside wall it’ll be colder, but the same wall in the bathroom doesn’t have issues with that and it’ll allow for a slightly deeper nook. I expected to build that along the lines of several how-to’s, size somewhat depending on what we choose for the tile. I was wondering if fiberglassing the 2x4 and plywood box might make for better waterproofing, but I’m not sure how tile would do with that. On the same wall I was thinking of a narrowish (10”) bench, built in with the pan ending at it’s base. I understand too what jadnashua is saying and haven’t ruled out using a premade bench and/or nook insert too.

I was thinking of marble or granite tile for the bench seat and nook bottom as well as perhaps the top of the entry curb. It’d be contrast/accent to the rest of the tiling and would have fewer seams than the 6” tile I was considering for the rest.

I hadn’t even thought of other than the basic drains, but I do like the looks of some of these others, especially that tiled one. That seems very doable. I like the looks of that Noble flashing/divot drain. I have to look at that a bit more.

Again, wow – thanks for all the help.

[johnfrwhipple]

...So my general idea for this shower is still pretty flexible and definitely open to suggestion and advice. I was planning a basic mud pan – like is shown on various how-to sites and books: preslope, rubber liner, final mortar with a 3 piece drain and tile. I can certainly see the advantage to using a material like Kerdi or Nobel and am considering that once I look a bit more at price and availability/shipping. Along with the mud pan I figured on using concrete board/wonder board with plastic behind for the walls. The space above the ledge from the foundation blocks just seemed a natural spot to have space for a decent sized nook. I’m aware as an outside wall it’ll be colder, but the same wall in the bathroom doesn’t have issues with that and it’ll allow for a slightly deeper nook. I expected to build that along the lines of several how-to’s, size somewhat depending on what we choose for the tile. I was wondering if fiberglassing the 2x4 and plywood box might make for better waterproofing, but I’m not sure how tile would do with that. On the same wall I was thinking of a narrowish (10”) bench, built in with the pan ending at it’s base. I understand too what jadnashua is saying and haven’t ruled out using a premade bench and/or nook insert too...

There is nothing wrong with a good old fashioned mud bed. This is the most common form of shower construction here in North America - if you believe all the online posts and blogs you would think the art of mud bed shower has died. It has not.

Main concerns here with this type of install is having a pre-sloped base under the liner so when the flood testing is done all the water drains away.

Next big one is protecting the liner from damage while installing the 4-1 or 5-1 cement-sand ratio over the liner with expanded metal lath.

If you take care and have a pre-slope, don't puncture the linear your good to go UNLESS you forgot to protect the weep holes from clogging.

Slopping a shower floor with an Old School Mud bed is like playing at the beach. Fun and not to hard.

Mixing the dry pack (4-1, 5-1) is straight forward and can be done right beside the shower on grade or idealy in a mud box. I use my mixer first and then switch to a Garden Hoe.

This system is the most cost effective and most likely the easiest for you to track down materials. Buy fresh Cement CHECK CHECK CHECK!!! Clean Washed Sand. Or perhaps Mapei's 4-1 premix if you can get it.

Up from this method of shower construction you can streamline steps, lower elevations, speed up the process or not.

Do you have access to Kerdi, Nobel, Mapei, Latecrete etc in Alaska? Might be worth it to call on a few tile stores and find out the costs of these items in your neck of the woods.

JW

[jadnashua]

FWIW, Kerdi membrane is 1M wide (39.37"), not 36". Noble makes nice stuff, too.

[DanAK]

I cut out a decent hole in my concrete floor. Went easier and better than I worried it could. Down about 4" to reinforcing(?) wire grid where I'll stop till I have in hand the drain and connection I'll use - no point going further than needed. Time now to firm up design and get supplies.

I have not found Nobel, Mapei, etc. around here. In fact I've only found PVC liner only at Home Depot. Central Plumbing and Heating supply, Lowes, Home Depot. I'm drawing a blank on someplace local that stocks this stuff retail. I can order hardware and even the membrane stuff online if need be.

You guys have been a big help. Thanks.

[jadnashua]

A conventional shower would work, but I like some of the newer alternatives better. You may want to run your plans by the building inspector. The other methods are approved, but if they aren't familiar with them, they can give you grief. Best to download and print the certifications for the system you settle on and maybe the installation instructions and have them in hand when applying for the permit (assuming you are).

When I did a shower at my mother's house, I e-mailed the inspector the links to those items (this was 400-miles away so I wanted to clear the path before starting), and he had no problems. But, it was the first time he'd seen or approved one using that method. It's always best to have the inspector in tune first rather than having discord - he generally wins.

[johnfrwhipple]

Jim here in Vancouver I break them down with a good debate and a handful of IMAPO certificates... !

DanAK you can have Nobel or Kerdi mailed to you.

You could order a Nobel shower base kit or Kerdi Kit even.

Or you can just bang out the liner like you want.

That is one of the things I love so much about the tile top point drain upgrade - it replaces the stock strainer on your clamping drain. No round cuts around a circular strainer and you net a designer shower with traditional methods.

You might want to look at the weep hole protector from Nobel. The head tech's name at Nobel is Eric. He told me that this one little product is "Dog" of sorts for the company. No real money in selling it but the value is priceless. That is why they made it and sell it at a loss most likely - to save all those standard shower installs.

The weep hole protector is also something you can order online at Noble Companies website store.

If you want to reach Eric and ask him more try this email; Eric Edelmayer <eric@noblecompany.com> If you want to order call Cindy in Sales Phone: 231-799-8000
Toll Free: 800-878-5788 Email: sales@noblecompany.com

I order direct from Nobel all the time.

JW