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Thread: Remembering 9/11

  1. #16

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    You asked why can't people live in peace?

    There is a book, which many college classes require, it is, The Peace Book. Written by Louise Diamond It cites 108 simple ways to create a more peaceful world. Louise Diamond has dedicated her life to helping people live with each other. Louise is the co-founder and president of the Institute for Multi-Track Diplomacy based in Washington, D.C. that takes a systems approach to peacebuilding in places of ethnic and regional conflict around the world.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men ( and women) to do nothing.

    Edmund Burke

    An excerpt:

    When the World Trade Center went down, something basic shifted in our human consciousness, at least in the United States; we woke up to the realities of war, and to the need for peace as a tangible presence among the whole human family. We woke up, too, to the realization that peace does not appear effortlessly, through our dreams-it requires action.

    The United Nations declared the year 2000 as the UN Year of the Culture of Peace, and the years 2001 to 2010 the UN Decade for the Culture of Peace and Nonviolence for the Children of the World.

    Peace is more than the absence of war, violence, or conflict, though that is an important first step. Peace is a presence-the presence of connection.

    www.thepeacecompany.com

  2. #17
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    you all have way too much time on your hands.
    .

    that is all I got to say about this......

  3. #18
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    You asked why can't people live in peace?

    There is a book, which many college classes require, it is, The Peace Book. Written by Louise Diamond It cites 108 simple ways to create a more peaceful world. Louise Diamond has dedicated her life to helping people live with each other. Louise is the co-founder and president of the Institute for Multi-Track Diplomacy based in Washington, D.C. that takes a systems approach to peacebuilding in places of ethnic and regional conflict around the world.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men ( and women) to do nothing.

    Edmund Burke

    An excerpt:

    When the World Trade Center went down, something basic shifted in our human consciousness, at least in the United States; we woke up to the realities of war, and to the need for peace as a tangible presence among the whole human family. We woke up, too, to the realization that peace does not appear effortlessly, through our dreams-it requires action.

    The United Nations declared the year 2000 as the UN Year of the Culture of Peace, and the years 2001 to 2010 the UN Decade for the Culture of Peace and Nonviolence for the Children of the World.

    Peace is more than the absence of war, violence, or conflict, though that is an important first step. Peace is a presence-the presence of connection.

    www.thepeacecompany.com
    My take on 9/11, with ten years to look back on it, is that we were too quick to label the attack as an act of war rather than as a vicious crime. Once we called it a war, we were obligated to go to battle against other countries and other peoples. As events in Afghanistan and Pakistan (and Vietnam) show, effectively extracting oneself from a prolonged war when you do not have the objective of conquering the inhabitants is virtually impossible.

  4. #19
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    I am surprised that you had to move here to completely or fully, undestand the pain, the sorrow and the suffering of others over 911. I understood the pain and suffering of others by listening to my dad talk about WW2. I could feel the pain of others by written words, or watching a tv broadcast. As much as you think, I should had known, whatever you think I should had known, it should not had taken you to move her to feel another's pain. I don't know what you think what happened at Pearl Harbor was, but, innocence was lost well before this, innocence was lost in learning the horror's of WW2, learning how low humanity can sink. 911, is the attack of Pearl Harbor of today.
    Well said Cookie
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    I am surprised that you had to move here to completely or fully, undestand the pain, the sorrow and the suffering of others over 911. I understood the pain and suffering of others by listening to my dad talk about WW2. I could feel the pain of others by written words, or watching a tv broadcast. As much as you think, I should had known, whatever you think I should had known, it should not had taken you to move her to feel another's pain. I don't know what you think what happened at Pearl Harbor was, but, innocence was lost well before this, innocence was lost in learning the horror's of WW2, learning how low humanity can sink. 911, is the attack of Pearl Harbor of today.
    When I was visiting the Pearl Harbor Memorial I had the priviledge of listening to a surviving sailor talk about his experience during the attack. Very moving. Soon there will be none left who can tell of the same.

  6. #21
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Maybe, it didn't seem real to you until, you saw the buildings?
    But, a loss of 3,000 lives in an attack speak volumes.
    Not to be crass Cookie, but many more Americans die from avoidable causes (e.g. gun crime) every year and that's before we get to the much larger numbers of those dying from preventable diseases and famine in other countries.

    It was the nature and the scale of the 9/11 attack that was so sickening. And you need to be here to fully understand that. To talk to the ordinary people that faced the horror of that day.

    Pearl Harbor was a military attack on military personnel (they know the risks when they sign up - at least in England they do).

    During 9/11 bankers and cooks took the wrath of extremists. That can't be right.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 09-12-2011 at 01:55 PM.

  7. #22

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    Well, to be honest, you are comparing apples to oranges there Ian. It was an attack not just a shoot out. We didn't do this to ourselves, it was done to us. Plus, Ian, what if... someone had a weapon ( a gun) aboard those planes besides the enemy? That could had changed the course of the lives for at least 3,000 people and their families.

    I talked many times with a Seabee while growing up, he was a neighbor, friend, and a suvivor of Pearl Harbor. He showed me all the pictures, he was a grand man.

    Another survivor of the same attack, Pearl Harbor, had Non Hodgkins, and I was asked to visit him when he was diagnosed. When I found out he was there at Pearl Harbor, it helped to take his mind off of his illness in talking about it. When he passed, he left me all his pictures and mementos. He was funny, he always wished he was 60 years younger, and then I would tell him he was too young for me. He ended up taking his own life in his garage.

    If you talked to any of those men during those times in Hawaii you would readily, understand what I am saying.

    Years ago, I got to know a surgeon who was from Japan whose family moved to Hawaii,
    and as a little boy he was riding his bike to school that eventful day. I heard the stories from 3 different people, and how funny, they all say the same thing. This surgeon asked me to write his story for him back then, since then has asked again, and maybe, I will accept and do it. He lives nearby, but, he is very hard to understand, we would work through tapes, but even so, that is not an easy thing.

    You say tomato, I say Tomato, someone who attacks you in my book, is your enemy.
    Last edited by Cookie; 09-12-2011 at 08:11 PM.

  8. #23
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    I agree Pearl Harbor was a tragic event.

    Without it you would have never entered the war.

  9. #24

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    You ever hear of relabeling? Even in the Kings English, the social theorists of the 60's & 70's mugged language as well, riots were upgraded to insurrections, terriorists to freedom fighters. It all depends, of course Ian, to whose ox is being gored. When the PLO blew up the school buses in Israel, they were called guerrillas, and freedom fighters by American journalists. The Islamic extremists who blew up the American embassies in the Middle east and East Africa were excoriated as terrorists by the same folks, same correspondents. During the 60's & 70's, psychopaths were renewed sociopaths. It was called, the Rename Game.

    I think the word terriorist is inappropriate & ineffective, not, because of what it means, but because I feel it in someway glorifies their goal.

    Think of all the words we have renamed through the past 4 decades.
    I think of Rosanne Barr, when she started calling her a, domestic engineer.

  10. #25

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    That's right, we are a peaceful loving nation, no war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    I agree Pearl Harbor was a tragic event.

    Without it you would have never entered the war.

  11. #26
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Default yea sure we are


    That's right, we are a peaceful loving nation, no war.



    what a total load of horse-


    this is really a point of view that you tell yourself to make yourself
    feel better about all the nasty things in your countries past that you would
    rather forget. Ugly things that were done a while back
    so you can have an easy , leisurely life... today
    ...
    People like to demonize others so they can either butcher them, or
    impose and indoctronate them into their religion....
    (and of course forceing them into your relgion is really for their own good)

    why dont you ask the american indians living in shacks on Reservations
    what they think about how wonderful and loving we are???
    I wonder what they think ......

  12. #27

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    Don't go getting your bowels in an uproar, lol, I was replying in like with sarcasm. If you remember correctly, Ian thinks we entered the war way too late and they did all the work.

    I know about the Indians, thank you.

  13. #28
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Whats so new about a slaughter? A few decades back the Zulu's chopped, hacked and raped a few MILLION Hutu's to death with dull sharpened leaf springs, and the whole world watched "Married with children" No newsmen would go there, so its a non issue.

    Jumping from a burning building is a mercy next to the machete treatment.

    Then of course, fire bombing Tokyo and Dresden and Londons attacks, and finally a few nuclear experiments in Japan. They make 9-11 look like a hiccup in the worlds history. I've been to the smoking NYC rubble, I know the misery, but its just a nano second in time.

    You and your knights templar, Ian should have continued the crusades so that we could vacation in Iraq now and have .29 cent gasoline. The brutes must die and their kin kept in control.

    Gear up your Brits and French, and lets move our stuff into Iraq before a REAL disaster hits. Quadaffy duck was just a absurd training mission that one .22 caliber bullet could have solved.

  14. #29
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    It all started to slip when we lost America. There's another relabeling.

    I don't recall the British calling it "freedom fighting" at that time either.

    A lot of history is the struggle for freedom. Or extremism. I still don't understand which.

    Whatever, it shouldn't excuse the loss of life.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 09-13-2011 at 12:56 PM.

  15. #30
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    A lot of history is the struggle for freedom. Or extremism. I still don't understand which.
    What is freedom to one person will inevitably be extremism to another. Who is right depends on who survives the resulting conflict.

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