Converting from jet pump to submersible

Amateur Plumber · Nov 20, 2011

Resurrecting old thead: need similar help on well conversion

Gary Slusser said:
If you are talking your cost, those figures are way high compared to mine. I buy from a Gould's distributor. I would pay about $275+/- for the pump. Since it is a jet being replaced, the tubing shouldn't be more than a 200' roll of 1" 160 PSI PE tubing. A 1.25" x 1" reducer ($3?) for the outlet of the pump. That's 3 1" x 1" barbed brass male adapters ($3 each?) and 6 hose clamps (I buy boxes of them) including the male for the outlet of the pitless. A torque arrestor ($8?), 3 wire splice kit ($3? and I have the extra splice leftover), and maybe 250' of 12/3 w/grnd (I buy 500-1000' reels). That would be maybe another $200 and that's higher than I think it would be.

If the jet is a shallow well model, the above are greatly reduced in length and cost. And I don't know if a new pressure tank is in the quote or not. I looked and he says "relocate the tank", not replace it. That would be simple due to running new tubing from it out to the well anyway.

The pitless costs me $50-$80.

The last of these I did was $1800+/- for a 1/2 hp 2 wire (no control box) 10 gpm Gould's. New Gould's V60 tank ($90), tank tee package ($48; switch and brass nipple, PR valve, cast tee, gauge). And I moved the tank closer to the wall and that requires changing the outlet plumbing and I always add a new ball valve. Unless the excavating is more than a few spade fulls, I don't do excavating but can get 2-3 guys with mini excavators in for less than $500 to dig down 5-6' and from the casing back to the cellar wall 3-6" deep. If the casing was buried, the hole is a bit bigger and deeper (frost line is 30"+) and a 6" Fernco and a 10' piece of sch 40 PVC if I don't have a shorter piece here and then a casing cap ($13?) and 2 wire nuts. Maybe 3 rolls of tape (I buy a dozen pack) and 6-8 wire guards at about $1.25 each (I buy by the case). I grossed about a grand on that job. I am the pump tech, plumber etc. and my wife is the helper. We do that type job in about 6-7 hours. I've attached a pictures of one.

A google search for float switches 230, I don't remember what URL:
http://tinyurl.com/9n96a

Gary
Quality Water Associates

I'm hoping to get some advice on what I am doing, which looks pretty much exactly what Gary has done here. I'm attaching a photo showing my existing well cap / seal. Hard to measure exactly, but it looks like the seal is 4" diameter. I want to convert the existing shallow well with jet pump to a submersible pump. The galvanized pipes are all 50+ years old and clearly corroding. My next step (I think) is to remove the seal, but I only find one corroded bolt on the top of the seal. Would I use a saw to simply cut the seal off, add the fernco etc with the new pump? Thanks for the help!

Texas Wellman · Nov 20, 2011

No, you can't cut off the seal. There is drop pipe hanging from the seal that you will have to account for.

I can't tell much from that picture, but what I would do is cut the piping away from the well head first. Then I would use my pump hoist (12,000# capacity) and see if I could get the well seal/adapter to budge. If that didn't work I would take a sledge hammer to the seal and start beating.

Sooner or later something will give.

Whatever you do, don't use a furnco type coupling to seal the old casing to the new riser like that picture on the first page. They're not rated for pressure and I would hate to risk letting contaminants into the casing after you bury it. Use a pressure rated connection like a dresser coupling.

Good luck.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Amateur Plumber · Nov 20, 2011

Thanks Texas Wellman. Agreed that the first step would be to cut off the pipe running to the home. In the picture you see the seal with a pipe running down the page. That is the pipe going to the home. There is a small copper tube on the left side of that that vents the well. That copper tube likewise goes inside the home.

But, I don't follow why a can't cut around the casing to remove the seal and drop pipe. Won't those just pull straight up and out of the shaft? If I break out the seal with a sledge, don't I risk having the drop pipe fall down into the shaft?

Again, thanks for helping out a newbie, and for the pressure rated coupling advice.

Gary Slusser · Nov 20, 2011

You may not be able to get a 4" pump down that old casing.

Amateur Plumber · Nov 21, 2011

Gary Slusser said:
You may not be able to get a 4" pump down that old casing.

If that is the case, would you recommend a 3 inch pump? I see where Grundfos makes a 3 inch 1/2 HP pump 5SQE-90 that would do the job.

Texas Wellman · Nov 21, 2011

The problem with the Grundfos 3" pump is that they have to spin at an extremely high rpm in order to make the gpm and pressure required. Something like 11,000 rpm vs. 3450 for a std. submersible pump. If the pump has any sort of solids like sand or grit pass through it will wear the internals down much quicker than a std. 4" pump.

So, to answer your question, I would recommend the 3" pump if you cannot get a regular 4" pump in the casing. The 3" pump costs about double the 4".

Also, make sure you only hang the pump on galvanized metal drop pipe. You need the strongest possible drop pipe because what goes in may not necessarily come out easy. Going with galvanized drop pipe may be the difference between getting the pump back out one day or not. If you don't care about getting the pump out eventually then use whatever material you feel comfortable with. For example, if you plan on drilling a new well within 5-10 years then I wouldn't worry about it too much, except for the fact that the old one really does need to be properly plugged and abandoned in order to protect the aquifer.

Post up some more pictures, I would like to see how this one turns out. You'd better hurry too, I would imagine that the ground is starting to freeze up there, or will be soon.

Texas Wellman · Nov 21, 2011

Oh, and one last thing. If it were me I would find a good ~5 HP compressor and try to blow the well (might need bigger compressor). You need to try and surge the well with air for several reasons.

First, you need to verify how much water the well is making. Around here anything less than 10-15 gpm is considered a dry hole and indicate a plugged screen, which is common on older galvanized wells. You may not have a screen, but I am not familiar with your area and geology so there is no way for me to know.

Also, surging the well will clear any excess debris that has built up over time. Running a pump normal does not really allow you to agitate the entire well like a good air compressor will. Surge the well, make sure it blows good clean water, and check for sand or grit. You will probably notice discolored water or even rust flakes coming out but eventually they should clear.

I was able to jet the well (air surge, blow etc) with a small 5.5 HP compressor no problem. It had been sitting dormant for about 20 years. For a 3-4" well you would probably need a bigger compressor to get it to really work well. We normally used a 185 CFM tow behind for 4" wells. It all depends on how well you want to surge it etc.

Good luck.

Masterpumpman · Nov 22, 2011

I would rectify the source of the problem. . . being electrical! Then I would contract a certified pump installer to diagnose the problem (many plumbers aren't qualified electricians or pump installers). Being a licensed plumber doesn't mean the person knows anything about well pumps. Many installers know very little about Jet Pumps so they recommend installing a submersible pump. Submersible pumps are simple to install, just set it and forget it.
I recommend finding a National Ground Water Certified pump installer (CWD/PI) http://dnrc.mt.gov/wrd/water_op/bwwc/pdfs/ngwacertificationbrochure.pdf. They can make a qualified decision to your needs. Most are reasonable.

Masterpumpman · Nov 25, 2011

Looking at the photo of the top of the well tells me that you (or the contractor) will have to extend the casing to at least 12" above ground. In your case this my not be simple because in addition a pitless adapter will have to be installed. This isn't a job for a plumber and I doubt that by the price quoted, your plumber really doesn't want the job! He'll probably sub contract a qualified/licensed driller/pump installer to do the job. I'd get a quote from a licensed driller/pump installer!

Converting from jet pump to submersible

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