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Thread: What to look for when the Drake II arrives before I start installation

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member tnkrer's Avatar
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    Default What to look for when the Drake II arrives before I start installation

    Hi,
    Based on the reviews here, I have ordered Drake II with sanigloss (CST454CEFG). It should be delivered in a week. What should I look for when I accept the delivery? Before I start installation? (I don't yet know how they are going to deliver and if the delivery person will wait until I confirm that everything looks OK) I will try to see that everything is in one piece and looks polished/clean etc. Also I will confirm that the bowl stays horizontal on the bathroom floor ..

    and I plan to install it myself. It seems that I will need the wax ring. Is there anything else I would need? Any recommendations for the wax ring?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Terry; 07-22-2011 at 08:43 AM.

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Make sure the driver hasn't dropped it off the end of the truck, and check for hair line cracks where the tank is molded to the lower part of the bowl.
    They can bounce a lot during shipping. I gave up shipping years ago because of porcelain damage. I was spending too much time arranging for replacements.

    Any toilet needs a standard kit for installing.
    My kit is two wax rings, a 16" stainless supply for the Ultramax II, though a 12" may work too. New closet bolts and nuts, and you may need shims depending on the floor. I use plastic "Shim-It" shims found in the door department.

    Unless your closet flange was installed on the finished flooring, you will need two wax rings.
    The wax goes on the floor, and then the bowl is walked over and set "down" on the wax.

    Last edited by Terry; 07-18-2011 at 09:47 AM.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The box should not tinkle (broken china) when moved. there should be no obvious crushed corners or sections of the box. A hole (not there originally) in the box is also reason to be cautious. If there are, before you sign for it, you need to confirm that it is not broken. Anything other than that would likely be a manufacturing defect, which are rare on a Toto, and not the fault of the shipping company. If it is obviously broken, refuse it. Otherwise, note potential problems on the bill of lading before you sign and inspect as soon as possible - the driver may not wait. Then, contact them as soon as possible.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The stuff I pick up locally has fewer then 1% returns.

    When I shipped the same product, I was getting 20% breakage.

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    DIY Junior Member tnkrer's Avatar
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    Thanks Jim and Terry. I hope the shipment arrives nice and safe. The sticky at the top gives nice instructions and I watched a few youtube videos to get an idea of what I am getting into. I will report how the whole thing goes

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    DIY Junior Member tnkrer's Avatar
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    So I went to local plumbing supply store and bought the installation accessories. After buying noticed that the wax ring (proflow) they had did not have extra safety plastic sleeve that one of the johni-ring plus has. I am going to call them and check if they have such piece separately. Why do I need that piece?
    (expecting the toto to arrive today and will install tomorrow)

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    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    Most of use do not use the ring with the plastic sleeve unless the flange is set below the floor and two rings are needed. In that instance, the plain ring goes on first, the horned ring on top with the funnel sticking into the the first ring. Otherwise, the horn seems to cause more problems than it solves. If your flange is properly set on top of the finished floor, just stay with the plain ring and you'll be fine.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; After buying noticed that the wax ring (proflow) they had did not have extra safety plastic sleeve that one of the johni-ring plus has

    NOT having it is a PLUS, not a deficiency. I NEVER use the "extra safety plastic sleeve", because my experience has been that they CAUSE more leaks than they prevent.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Look at it this way...the toilet already has a horn on it to direct the waste to the middle of the flange hole. Then, the wax makes the seal. Why do you need an extra horn that can get crimped, or if it's tight, provide a path through the wax to leak?
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member tnkrer's Avatar
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    Default Done!

    Installed the toilet on Saturday. Took about 2.5 hours (Removing old one and cleaning the flange took more than half the time). After about 20 flushes .. here is the verdict ..
    Pros
    1. Very quick flush. seems strong too .. not noisy .. very quick refills
    2. Comfortable height is more comfortable than the old one
    3. Most things flush well

    Cons -
    1. Sticky poop left residue at the bottom (below water level). Second flush cleared that.
    2. Some floating particles from poop remained back after the flush .. needed second flush.

    I am ok with 2 double flushes out of 20. So I am happy.

    Few things I noticed during my install - Any of these can cause problems?
    1. With this house .. whenever I open something, its almost a guarantee that I will find something that I was not prepared for. The toilet was no exception. When the old toilet was removed, the flange was 1/8 inch above the finished tile. The waste pipe was 3/4 inch below the finished tile level. The inner diameter of the flange was 5 inch. After some head scratching, using the utility knife, I cut around one wax ring and made it 5 inch diameter and placed it inside the flange. The second wax ring sat on top of that and flange as I had seen in youtube videos etc.
    2. I had the toilet nice and level .. but after tightening the bolts, the front has gone up a little. The bubble on the level is slightly towards the front. (May be that's why Jamie likes to pin down the front with shims?)
    3. Because the flange was 1/8 inch above tile level, The toilet is not flush to the tile ..There is a small gap between the tile and the toilet. (I havent caulked it yet, Once everything looks ok, I plan to caulk it in couple of weeks).

    Thanks for all the help and suggestions .. Couldn't have done without those.

  11. #11
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Most of the time, a bowl will not need shimming. If the floor is out of level, it may need shimming. If you do shim, it's best to pin the front of the bowl down.
    A flange that is 1/8" above the floor will not raise or hold up any bowl that I'm aware of. It's a good idea to set a bowl without wax first if you want to check the floor to bowl and flange for problems. There are some wax seals, sometimes with a high flange a wax with horn may not allow the bowl to drop. Since this is a tile floor, it may simply be some raised tiles in relation to the other tiles.
    We don't bring out a level very often. Most floors in bathrooms are out of level. They may start out level, but time takes it's toll. Depending on the bearing points of the home and how long the spans are, wood will sage over time.
    Also, bowls are made from clay. It's not going to be perfect. They are formed from clay, and as they dry, they shrink. They then get kiln fired. TOTO starts off with less moisture in the manufacturing process, so they are very consistent compared to some of the other stuff we work with.

    If the front of the bowl rises after tightening the bolts, then there is a high point on the floor. I would rather have the back of the bowl up in the air a little bit, then the front.
    The shims should be inserted first, and then the bowl tightened down. Take the movement out first.
    Last edited by Terry; 07-25-2011 at 04:14 PM.

  12. #12
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The correct place for a flange is installed on TOP of the FINISHED floor (with no gaps underneath it), and anchored through the floor into the subflooring. So, 1/8" is nothing, as all flanges are thicker than that and all toilets should fit.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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