What toilet never plugs? Replacing old 5.0 gpf

About 3 years ago I replaced an old 5 gpf American Standard with a Toto Drake based 100% on the comments here. What I did not understand at the time was the hatred people expressed about their old toilets. My old toilet flushed well with only the occasional plug. Now, however, I understand what it is to hate a toilet. The Toto Drake is on my list of annoyances in life. (and if the Drake is that much better than what it replaces, well people you have my condolences, because those would have to be some pretty awful toilets) The Toto plugs about as often as the old toilet, but because of the funky opening a regular plunger doesn't work very well. But that isn't the real annoyance, I HATE the Drake because it has zero wash down. Everyone in the family avoids this toilet if a #2 is on the agenda. Any skid mark above the water line is there until the toilet brush is used to remove it. I've told my teenager that he wipes his backside and then he wipes the toilet. It's just plain nasty.

So ............... here is my problem. The remaining American Standards are being replaced, but with what? The Toto Drake is out of the question I will not buy another. The Drake II looks interesting with the cyclone rinse. Does it really work? Is there a toilet out there that flushes and removes skid marks? What is the best all around toilet? I don't care what it looks like, or even the cost, but I do care about flushing and not having to swab it out after every #2.

If you are plugging the Drake that often, then you need to be looking at either a Caroma toilet, or something like a Kohler Pressure Assist toilet.
The Caroma uses a 3" trapway, and the Kohler is more like 2" but with with a pressure jet.
Don't expect the Caroma do be all that good at rinsing though. You need to pick what is important.

For the average 95% percentile consumer, there are plenty of products that work well.
Right now you say that you are plugging both the 5.0 GPF American Standard Cadets and the Toto Drake 1.6 GPF. That's almost anything out there.

So that means that none of the other models like the Cadet 3, Champion 4, Wellworth, Cimarron, Niagara, and other standard working fare toilets will work either. You may be stuck with a Caroma or pressure assist with Flushmate. Don't even consider the WDI dual-flush pressure unit. CR likes that unit, but they never did any long term testing. It "looked" good though.

If you're plugging up the old five gallon beast all the time, it's time to get real serious.
If you were in the 95 percentile, then I would say Drake II with CEFIONTECT.
But since you are in the other 5%, then why bother.

Any toilet in the last twenty years is using less water and has more bowl surface.
Unless you pick up something that someone else is throwing out, you will have to brush sometimes.

But if you are plugging anything, at least don't use Charmin paper. Way too much cotton content, and they plug everything. If you really feel you need a catchers mitt back there, start looking at bidet seats. Washing with water is going to be much easier on your plumbing system then dumping globs of wet cotton down it.

This is like blaming your tires for going flat because you drive of piles of nails. It really appears you have a medical problem that will jam any regular toilet, so don't blame the toilet. True, some toilets do clog easier than others, but a Toto Drake isn't one of them. Terry has given you good advice. The only thing I can offer as a suggestion is for you to consult with a doctor to see if there is an answer for your medical condition. Good luck.

Gary, I know it is hard to read the entire post, my question was in the second part. Try reading the whole thing. Do you have anything helpful to offer or just idiotic and insulting comments? Sorry for not liking the Drake, it has no bowl wash to remove the skid marks. It is the older model and I am wondering if anyone has comments on the newer models of any brand that may wash down better.

(btw the plugging is more function of too much charmin than too much #2. My point, though not well made, was to say the drake flushes about as well as the older 5 gpf toilet.)

The Drake II with the CEFIONTECT does a better job at rinsing then the non-CEFIONTECT versions.

Gary has the 1.6 Dartmouth and the 1.6 Drake ADA

Everybody is a little different. For some, rinsing is more important, and for others they hardly notice. I think some of it is diet, or the water. In the old days with a large pool of water, it pretty much wasn't an issue. There is a lot more bowl surface showing now.
If you're going through Charmin, you might want to look at a bidet seat though. In the long run, it will save.

To be blunt, there is no toilet that can't be plugged. Some are much better than others, though. Some diets are more prone to sticky stools. Fiber can really make a difference and minimizes it, along with improving health. But, everyone is different. CEFIONTECT is smoother, and makes the wash work better on any toilet. Some other manufacturers have similar optional finishes. I haven't compared them, so can't say if they work as well, better, or worse than Sanaglos. There's a video of a Toto with the dual cyclone flush kicking around here on Terry's site in one of the threads, and probably on U-Tube.

I'm sorry if you took offense at my comments regarding your health, I certainly meant no offense. Perhaps my analogy was not taken in the spirit I meant it to be.

Just about every airport restroom in all of the airports in Japan, the home market of Toto, is fitted with Inax brand toilets, as are most Western-style hotels in Japan. (Inax is Japan's no. 2 toilet maker by market share.) Now, the airport restrooms probably are serviced by professionals at least twice or thrice per day -- but far, far less than once every use; and although we make frequent trips to Japan, and often use the airport restrooms there, I never have seen any Japanese airport restroom toilet plugged, nor have I ever seen any streaking at all in the bowl of any Japanese airport toilet. I am not asserting that it never, ever happens, just that I never have seen it.

Editorial comment: Just an observation on doing research before buying a toilet. Youtube has a bunch of videos of toilet flushing golf balls, latex encased #2 substitute, water wigglers, cell phones, toys and any number of other things that have very little resemblance to #2. The manufacturers tout being able to flush 3 or times or more the weight of any normal male's "deposit" as something to be proud of. Really? Show me how well you wash down the skid marks and flush a normal #2. Take that poo substitute out of the latex and smear a little bit on the bowl above the water line, and then flush the rest in all of its sticky #2 representing icky-ness. Show me how well your toilet works doing all of the things a toilet should do in the real world. I've never eaten, pooped or flushed a golf ball.

A trip to the high-end plumbing store results in people who have never used the products they sell. (but they do have just about every model of Toto)

And what is up with the toilet fan boys? People taking videos of random old toilets flushing. And others commenting, "good wash down", "oh complex trap way", "haven't seen one of those in a while."

Just like Dorthy in the Wizard of Oz, I don't belong here. Spending my evenings watching toilets flush on the internet, seriously there has got to be something wrong with that.

(btw Gary I understand, everything is cool )

Here is a web page that you may find useful: [url said:

http://www.inax-usa.com/innovation/flushing-system/[/url]

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That is very interesting. To the noninitiated the Inax double vortex looks just like the Drake II flushing.

At this point the Drake II will probably be the one I'll buy. Its available locally, and honestly I can't watch too many more toilet flushing videos. <lol> (see my comment above)

JuanSigned said:

Editorial comment: Just an observation on doing research before buying a toilet. Youtube has a bunch of videos of toilet flushing golf balls, latex encased #2 substitute, water wigglers, cell phones, toys and any number of other things that have very little resemblance to #2. The manufacturers tout being able to flush 3 or times or more the weight of any normal male's "deposit" as something to be proud of. Really? Show me how well you wash down the skid marks and flush a normal #2. Take that poo substitute out of the latex and smear a little bit on the bowl above the water line, and then flush the rest in all of its sticky #2 representing icky-ness. Show me how well your toilet works doing all of the things a toilet should do in the real world. I've never eaten, pooped or flushed a golf ball.

A trip to the high-end plumbing store results in people who have never used the products they sell. (but they do have just about every model of Toto)

And what is up with the toilet fan boys? People taking videos of random old toilets flushing. And others commenting, "good wash down", "oh complex trap way", "haven't seen one of those in a while."

Just like Dorthy in the Wizard of Oz, I don't belong here. Spending my evenings watching toilets flush on the internet, seriously there has got to be something wrong with that.

(btw Gary I understand, everything is cool )

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You just made my day!

bowl rinse

@JuanSigned - I have both the Drake I (like you) and the Utramax II (same double-cyclone flush and rinse as the Drake II). What *I* have found is that the Drake I actually performs a little better than the Ultramax II (same as Drake II) with respect to rinsing above water line streaks. YMMV, but I wouldn't expect a big difference between the Drake I and Drake II in rinsing bowl streaks. Good luck!

Life's too short to worry about a few skid marks. That's what toilet bowl cleaner and brushes are for. Growing up using the outhouse, we never worried about streaks and toilets in town often went unflushed.

I install Vitra toilets because their waterway is basically an inverted "U" without any of the curves and crevices most others have. But the only toilets which will NEVER clog are the ones you use in the woods and campsites.

JuanSigned said:

To the noninitiated the Inax double vortex looks just like the Drake II flushing.

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Oh, the differences are huge: the water outlets in the Inax bowl (viewed from the top) are at the 12:30 and 8:30 positions, while those in theToto Vespin II in our home are at the 1:30 and 9:30 positions; and the shape of the opening to the trapway is also different. (grin)

The Japanese recycle their residences at a frequency similar to that at which Americans trade in their pick-up trucks, so the market for replacement toilets in Japan is lively. And within that market, Toto and Inax are in a constant fierce battle for market share similar to the battle for market share in the U.S. pick-up truck market. Accordingly, any innovation that Inax makes appears very shortly in a new Toto model, and vice versa. Inax actually beat Toto to the market with a Washlet-style advanced toilet seat a few decades back, but Toto did not let the Inax advantage stay unchallenged for long; the situation with Double Vortex/Double Cyclone is very similar.

Every manufacturer makes a variety of toilets in good/better/best ranges of flush performance. No one test, like the MAP, tells the whole story. There are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of models rated at 800 MAP or above, which should all be excellent performers. But no ratings take into account the size, texture, and consisitency of YOUR load, or the toilet paper. There are huge flushability differences between Charmin, and the cheapest single ply Scott ( the latter being best). I don't think anyone has objectively measured bowl wash performance, but it varies. With 1.28 being pretty much standard in CA now, and coming soon to a theater near YOU, and 0.5 gpf on the horizon, you just better get used to bowl wash issues and change TP brands.

JuanSigned said:

That is very interesting. To the noninitiated the Inax double vortex looks just like the Drake II flushing.

At this point the Drake II will probably be the one I'll buy. Its available locally, and honestly I can't watch too many more toilet flushing videos. <lol> (see my comment above)

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did you end up getting drake ii? if not, which one did you get and how is performance?

American Standard commercial toilet with a Zurn Aquaflush seems to rarely plug. I have actually considered getting this for my home.

After reading all of this I found out that their is a difference in tp
and how it flushes never heard of that before.
Which is the best for flushing and septic system
? How room I do what Terry suggested and put
a bidet in
George

You don't need a separate bidet. The easiest solution is to change the seat. Adding a Washlet or bidet seat gives you the ability to wash and dry without moving. The seats use the same water as the toilet; using electricity to warm the seat, the water and the air dry. They come with a cord that plugs into a GFI outlet.

http://terrylove.biz/12-bidet