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Thread: Wiring a GFCI

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    DIY Junior Member maurice53's Avatar
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    Default Wiring a GFCI

    I have 2 outlets in a laundry on the same dedicated circuit that are within 5' of the utility sink. 12/2 loops from the first to the second. Do I need each to be a GFCI or can I connect the second to the load terminal of the first? I am thinking that they both need to be GFCI because...and I may be wrong on this... if the second was not a GFCI and connected to the load of the first- if it came into contact with water it would not trip the first GFCI.

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    In the Trades SacCity's Avatar
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    Yes, you can use 1 GFIC for both plugs, the requirment is that both plugs be protected. Attaching the second plug to the load terminal is the way to do it....

    THat being said, I gernerally put in a GFIC on each plug. The reason being that if there is only one GFIC when it trips the entire circuit goes dead, at which point I get a call and have to drive across town to push a reset button. Whereas if there is a GFIC in each plug the instalation cost is significantly higher, but when one trips the client or tenant will try and press the reset button themselves before calling me. And if it is only one plug that has failed it is not an emergency and I don't have drop everything and drive across town to press the reset botton....

    My last recall working for the large plumbing company was where I had cabled the kitchen line. A few days latter I get called back out on a costomer complaint because now the Garbage Disposal (GB) does not work. Garbage disposal was on the same circuit as the counter plug which had tripped, $20 in gas out of my pocket, with no compensation....
    Michael
    Michael
    Sac City Plumbing
    http://SacCityPlumbing.com

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    Electrical Contractor Jim Port's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SacCity View Post
    My last recall working for the large plumbing company was where I had cabled the kitchen line. A few days latter I get called back out on a costomer complaint because now the Garbage Disposal (GB) does not work. Garbage disposal was on the same circuit as the counter plug which had tripped, $20 in gas out of my pocket, with no compensation....
    Michael
    The GD is prohibited from being on the 20 amp small appliance branch circuits.

    Did the company refund the money for the non-compliant install?

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    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SacCity View Post
    THat being said, I gernerally put in a GFIC on each plug. The reason being that if there is only one GFIC when it trips the entire circuit goes dead, at which point I get a call and have to drive across town to push a reset button. Whereas if there is a GFIC in each plug the instalation cost is significantly higher, but when one trips the client or tenant will try and press the reset button themselves before calling me. And if it is only one plug that has failed it is not an emergency and I don't have drop everything and drive across town to press the reset botton....

    My last recall working for the large plumbing company was where I had cabled the kitchen line. A few days latter I get called back out on a costomer complaint because now the Garbage Disposal (GB) does not work. Garbage disposal was on the same circuit as the counter plug which had tripped, $20 in gas out of my pocket, with no compensation....
    Michael
    This is why you are a plumber and not an electrician, and should stick to what you know...plumbing.


    A) What does using the load terminals have to do with this scenario AT ALL??? Did you not know that the disp was on that circuit? Did the customer not know?
    Using GFI's at every location is wasteful, overkill and amateurish.

    B) The disposal should NOT have been on a counter or general kitchen receptacle circuit AT ALL. This is basic kitchen electric 101.

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    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maurice53 View Post
    I am thinking that they both need to be GFCI because...and I may be wrong on this...
    Yes, you are.


    Quote Originally Posted by maurice53 View Post
    if the second was not a GFCI and connected to the load of the first- if it came into contact with water it would not trip the first GFCI.
    This is the specific reason for the "LOAD" terminals.

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    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    Using GFI's at every location is wasteful, overkill and amateurish...
    PFFT!

    In this case the net difference is $10. Small price to pay to avoid confusion down the road. Heck, spare no expense... put in a $50 GFI breaker in the panel and elevate to rank amateur.

    That said, I have regular outlets daisy-chained off "load" terminals of GFCI outlets and saved myself a few dollars. Now, I did the wiring so I know what GFCI protects what downstream outlets so no gasoline will be wasted. I pity the "challenged" homeowner that will eventually buy this place when they trip a GFCI and have to call out an electrician to push a button. I'm guessing daisy-chained GFCI outlet resets are a good revenue stream for some contractors.

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    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    I pity the "challenged" homeowner that will eventually buy this place when they trip a GFCI and have to call out an electrician to push a button.
    Are you saying the whole world is stupid and has no sense about GFCI devices at all?

  8. #8
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    Are you saying the whole world is stupid and has no sense about GFCI devices at all?
    No, not the whole world... there are still a few people left that can think for themselves.

    I think you missed my (intentional) sarcastic tone. I should use more Smilies. :P

    I work in IT and so often have to suffer stupid people. I have to wonder how they manage to drive their car to work if they cannot recognize a poorly crafted phishing scam.

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    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    In case this did not become clear in the discussion:

    The LOAD terminials of a GFI receptacle ARE GFI protected, and if a fault occurs in that load circuit, it DOES trip the whole GFI.

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    DIY Junior Member maurice53's Avatar
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    Thanks jimbo and everyone. It is clear as day now... Is there ever a valid reason to install individual GFI's along the same circuit?

  11. #11
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Not really...it just ends up costing more. They are easier to isolate where the problem is, though. Keep in mind (although few people do it), you should check the things regularly via the test button to verify they still work. This is one reason a GFCI CB may not be the best solution as it's out of sight, out of mind, but it would provide the same level of protection.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; Is there ever a valid reason to install individual GFI's along the same circuit?

    IF the outlets are in different rooms from the GFCI, finding the tripped on, if you do not know the floor plan, can be challenging. I one had one where the outlet in the garage was protected by a GFCI under a dressing bench in the bathroom. The homeowners had NEVER known it was there, much less seen it or used it.

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    In the Trades SacCity's Avatar
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    Good debate, my point is that I was able to pass on the material cost, and it seemed as if most of the tenants and property managers were not compitent to reset a GFIC or a breaker.

    I had a property manager call me out to replace a breaker because she could not reset it. THe breaker was tripped and she tried to push it to the on position and it would not stay on....
    A short lession on how to reset a breaker,

    Yes I know that a Garbage disposal should not be on a appliance circuit. However most of the homes that I work on are older. So you never know what is hidden in the walls. Who has done what in the past...

    A crappy duplex I looked at last year, the water heater had failed, owner wanted me to instal a new, I looked at the corrosion on a three year old water heater and told him that he had an electrical problem. He complained that it was not possible because he had just had the unit rewired a few years ago.... He ended up having to replace all the wiring in the unit...

    Too many hacks, twisting wires together and covering it with drywall.
    I walk away from those projects now. Not worth my risk.
    Michael
    Sac City Plumbing
    http://SacCityPlumbing.com

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