We have gotten too...something -- not sure what the right word it -
...reliant on automatic systems to keep us safe?
We don't check our car tire pressures any more so now we have federally mandated automatic pressure checking systems. Last time I had a flat fixed, they charged me double because the tire in question had one of those radio transmitters to tell the computer what my tire's PSI was.
I for one (and I know I'm pretty rare in this) check my TPR valves about once a month, and I bang on both ends of my thermal expansion tank about once a month to make sure it's not waterlogged. I check the pressure about once a year.
Now some smart plumber/entrepreneur needs to apply the car tire pressure monitoring system to checking expansion tank pressure! Make a million bucks.
The flaw here is that the TP valve leaks only at 150 psi, way beyond where your system pressure should EVER go. Second flaw is that without a lower value valve or tank, you will likely see pressure top off around 80 or 100 or 120, depending on how much pipe is in the house and how flexible it is. Or how often someone uses water and what temperature its set at. So one likely never sees that pressure flucuation.The visible sign of failure for a thermal expansion tank is the T&P valve leaking a small amount of water. There is no visible sign of failure on a relief valve until you receive an enormous water bill for dumping water down the drain.
I have a closed sys at a rental without a ex tank, and I notice pressure tops at 80 when it sits for along time. Its electric with maybe 130' water.
Which likely explains how the world survived so long without them.
As to exploding toilet valves, send it to myth busters for a try. Or hook one up to your nitrogen tank.
When one builds a airlliner like a water heater or a submarine, without riveted aluminum sheets, then we wont end up with convertible 737's.
And when one teaches the Airbus pilots a bit of common sense that a kid learns with a battery airplane, they will put the nose down to gain speed, not up to guarantee disaster. Their altitude indicator worked, so WTF was with these clowns? The french factor? Airbus is VERY sad that the boxes were found!
Finally, interesting how plumbers sit by and allow Stalin to make them ruin the cost of housing and kill building by forcing sprinklers on us. [More pipe=more money$$$$] And those idiotic backflow valves. And politically foist expansion tanks on us even in systems that dont need them.
If our legislators had any sense, and plumbers had a lobby, sprinklers would be in the kitchen and utility room only. And a water heater would have a 100 psi back up relief valve.
Now there would be more houses to build and we would all make more money.
The codes are making a lot of "criminals" around here - cannot afford a permit- build without it - or rather buy a OSB mobile box and let it rot out in 20 years - the American way.
Last edited by ballvalve; 05-30-2011 at 10:50 AM.
How many times would a T&P discharge before it is noticed?
The thousands of pressure cycles to the relief valve set point that would provide no indication to the homeowner.
One has a visible indicator and the other has none! Don't you get it?
Something else did though....
Say is that a crack pipe hanging offa your lip?
A Submarine hull will never fail! They are welded of course...
The Mud Wrestling goes on....
I know better than to open the t+p valve.. in a customers home without asking first....
becasue 99% of the time It will always leak and someone is going to have to change that valve to keep if from pissing all over the place ....
That is pretty close to sabatoge and the customer is never pleased to shell out $$ for something that was working just fine before you touched it with your boney fingers.......
if they give you permission to check it and want it inspected for safety then that is one thing....
I dont think that anyone would pay for a maintaince contract to have
the t+p valve and thermal tank inspected every year..., perhaps I am wrong...
Look that this limed up valve, if you touch that one
I guarantee you will be changeing it out... I would give them a replacement
price before I ever laid hands on it...
You know we weren't raised around indoor plumbing.
Lets just figure out how we can get that mound of crap in the toilet to go away and not raise a ruckus.
Ever since that damn Geico commercial made us all that money we've had so much trouble figuring out how all this stuff works.
We should have just stayed in the cave.
At least then we could just crap in the woods.
I know there has to be an easy way to empty the toilet out.
Everything else turned out to be easy once we learned how.
I'm here to learn all about indoor plumbing.
Electrical fires can happen anywhere in the home, people smoke and light candles in other rooms as well. Now your really showing your ignorance! Besides if you go to the trouble of installing sprinklers in your home why wouldn't you protect the entire home, the cost savings would be pretty irelovent when a family member died because you wanted to save a few bucks!If our legislators had any sense, and plumbers had a lobby, sprinklers would be in the kitchen and utility room only.
quote; A Submarine hull will never fail!
I assume that picture was of the Thresher, a victim of "freezing water". If you have a fire in your bedroom, because you were smoking in bed, you will be VERY happy that you were required to have sprinklers in the house. Getting the "stuff" out of the toilet bowl is so easy, "Even a caveman can do it". You sound like you want to go out in the woods and join up with the Survivalists.
Last edited by hj; 05-31-2011 at 05:33 PM.
wether it be a submarine, water heater, or thermal expansion tank
... some day it will fail....
the problem here is the astronomical odds and stats ....
its nice to have everyone all safe and cosey... but when you look at the odds of something bad happenning....
the odds of a water heater blowing up is probably once every two or three years...in a country of over 210 million poeple
YES it does happen, but your odds are better for you to
hit the power-ball lottery than to have one ever blow up on you
the odds that I have two of them in my front window that blew up is astronomical
basically what I am saying is the things are pretty damn safe.
and they have been safe for decades.....
without the thermal tanks on them.
as far as making fire sprinklers a law for all homes, to save a few lives
that aint ever gonna happen.....
Nobody ever said an expansion tank would prevent a WH from blowing up! That isn't its purpose. It is to prevent stress fractures and (primarily) maintain constant pressure in the water system.
There are some places where sprinklers are required on new construction. Expect to see it spread. What you spend on installation will normally be saved on the insurance for the house. As with most codes, existing homes are grandfathered.
Important note - I'm not a pro
Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014
He's not understanding the comment to Ballvalve about the water heater exploding before the ballcock did...
It's too bad he doesn't know the Residential Fire Sprinklers are already in the 2009 IPC so next code update he'll be a dinosaur.....
Even Water Conditioner Installations have to be considered as part of the Residential Sprinkler Code....
That will never Happen.... Or did it already?