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Thread: The Swiss people got it right.....

  1. #1
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Default The Swiss people got it right.....

    The swiss have assisted suicide and have just voted to keep it legal
    for their citizens and anyone who wishes to take a one way vacation to their country to end their suffering... well good for them

    I am sure that this will make a lot of doctors, and medicine companies furious to see some of their income stream being threatened this way...

    I Remember when DR Kervorkian was helping assist peole to die back in 95 and went to jail for it..
    the powers that be had to keep this medicle machine going in high gear and get the last dollar out of everyone..... no one gets off this ride cheap... its the law........

    The powers that be dont want to see this become a trend starting anywhere else...
    their is too much $$$ at stake....


    please everyone do not take this thread personally

    ....

    .http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13405376

  2. #2
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    This is a good example of freedom.

    Why are some of the most practical freedoms completely absent in the United States, which keeps proclaiming it was founded on freedom?

    There are so many things you are not free to do here, I cannot see how this place is "free".

    Switzerland clearly is though.

    Today is a Sunday. And that means I cannot buy liquor. And I cannot buy liquor on any day at a gas station.

    Morality is killing America's freedom.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 05-15-2011 at 07:40 AM.

  3. #3
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Cool a little bit of the story....

    About 200 people commit assisted suicide each year in Zurich, including many foreign visitors.
    It has been legal in Switzerland since 1941 if performed by a non-physician with no vested interest in the death.
    Assistance can be provided only in a passive way, such as by providing drugs. Active assistance - helping a person to take or administer a product - is prohibited.


    I never thought of it this way... is it really healthy to have a doctor
    who has a "vested interest" in keeping you alive at all cost.....
    because your illness lines his pocket book????

    I dont think I ever want a doctor to look at me and my incurable illness as a ticket to his next new BMW....

  4. #4
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Default Doctors Suck Money, All that they can...

    I know here, if a doctor knows that you have insurance, They will milk the insurance Company for all they can. And want you to come back in 2 weeks.

    If they know you do not have Insurance , They will say You are just fine, Come back next year, or when you get insurance, And they will find something wrong with you.

    Sad but True.


    DonL
    Last edited by DonL; 05-15-2011 at 08:44 AM.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  5. #5

    Default

    My own mom I didn't realize it at the time was dying of cancer. I remember she said to me at the time, " I should had walked off a redlight." That is what she said. My beautiful young mom, only 53 said that. Next came a phone call when she said, " You know Cookie, I may die from this." I gave her a false hope, telling her not to talk like that, saying, " you will be fine." I couldn't deal with it. She lived 19 months with it, the last couple months was bad. It destroyed me. I sat with her when she died. Unable to answer the nurse's questions, if I wanted her to have more morphine. She slipped into a coma and sometimes, would whince or try to call out. I would eventually, say to give her more morphine because I didn't want her hurting.

    I sat there in the dead of winter, 8 months pregnant after she died. I just sat there and sat there while everyone else was making phone calls and telling them, "mom was gone."

    She was now 55, and I was 30. My whole life changed. I didn't know if I should be happy because I was bringing a new life into this world, my life, or sad because, I lost a life in my life which meant everything to me. My mom. I took it very badly for a long long time. I grieved my whole children's childhoods.

    Not too many years later, when I was 44, the doctors now told me that I had cancer. In between those years I lost my dad to it, many uncles of my mom's and an aunt, so, I never saw anyone survive it. Only suffer from it.

    I suffered the losses greatly.

    The day I came home from the hospital I sat on the loveseat and just sat there and sat there. After my husband left for work and I put the boys on the schoolbus I would just retreat there, and wouldn't move. I sat in the dark, no tv on, no drape open, I wouldn't make even a cup of coffee. I just sat there. For weeks. For a couple months.

    Then, along came my cat. Who is now 23 years old. He sat on the top of the loveseat and he would touch the drape and then, touch my hand. I knew what he wanted, but, I would tell him to go away. He would just sit with me in the darkened room. Until, one day, after he touched my hand and after I told him to go away, he took his furry little paw and for what it was worth he slapped my face! Then, I guess, not knowing what to expect, he backed off rolling into a little ball. I looked at him being so afraid and started to pet him telling him, " it is okay." I opened the drape and the blind and he started to look out and he wanted me to, so, I obliged him. Each morning he would do this. One morning, in the month of May, he wanted me to open the window. There, I could hear the birds and smell the fresh air. Together we watched a Robin feeding her young, we even saw a mole, we named Loy running about.

    I started to make coffee in the morning. I started to look forward to my mornings with him. I started to see life through my cat's eyes.

    I decided to take the chemo. A man who is from NZ, a friend of mine, wouldn't leave me feel sorry for myself, he was brutually honest, in saying, " pull your thumb out and get on with living." Between him and the cat, I had no choice, I started on the dreaded chemos.

    And, suffered I did. It was not easy. But, I kept my childrens faces in my minds' eye and focused on it. So, I am here. After fighting it for nearly 6 years on chemo, I am here.

    I know their will be a next for me. I am living with cancer. It is incurable. I have been in remission for 5 years now, but, I know, it won't last forever. I accept that.

    I have given lots of thoughts about that day with my mom so many years ago now. I have asked myself, if I would want my sons who are the light in my life, wanting to be me...that day. Do I want them to feel the pang of pain watching me suffering?

    I have made my decision. When nothing else can be done for me, when treatments are failing and nothing new is on the horizon, I will take my life into my own hands and call it good.

    And, even the cat won't have a thing to say about it.

  6. #6
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Default

    It is a slippery slope though.

    If this were allowed and enough people started to make decisions when to end, norms would be established.

    Society would start to ask questions if people decided to hang around too long.

    And then the insurance companies and government would start getting in on the act, deciding when people should die.

    Perhaps things are best left as they are after all?

  7. #7
    Consultant cwhyu2's Avatar
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    Default

    It mabey raining,but the sun is still shining!

  8. #8

    Default

    My New Zealand friend always says, he is like a bad smell he always comes back, and that always, always makes me laugh.

    I think the term, Assisted Suicide, needs to be changed, corrected. Because, the way I feel suicide is when you don't want to live anymore.

    In what we are talking about, it is because we can't live anymore. That is not suicide. That is not taking the chicken way out because you are afraid to fight.

    It is like knowing, you are fighting a war, and finding your gun has run out of ammunition.

    When someone has runned out of firepower, getting the ammo from a doctor isn't very hard. But, I think, it needs to be legalized, above board, and honest, and if someone chooses, the help from one.
    Last edited by Cookie; 05-15-2011 at 08:21 PM.

  9. #9
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Today is a Sunday. And that means I cannot buy liquor. And I cannot buy liquor on any day at a gas station.
    Ian you can't go one day without having to buy alcohol?
    That might be a sign of something much deeper than being deprived of your freedom...

    Try This Simple Test Ian...

  10. #10
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
    Ian you can't go one day without having to buy alcohol?
    That might be a sign of something much deeper than being deprived of your freedom...

    Try This Simple Test Ian...
    Why buy booze at a gas station? Stock up the trunk and house from a big box and be ready for a binge at any moment.

    As for the georgeous country of the Swiss, and their ethically bankrupt residents eating the best cheese in the world, the moment they send those 40 mile long trains worth of Jewish tooth fillings and melted menorah's back to Israel [where it can be put to good use vaporizing Irans nuclear program [pogram?] THEN.... they can rejoin the world society.

    Of course euthanization is legal, all the lesser Nazi's and SS changed their lederhosen,socks and clothes in 1941 and went to their summer houses and numbered "bank" accounts.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 05-16-2011 at 11:01 AM.

  11. #11
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Why buy booze at a gas station? Stock up the trunk and house from a big box and be ready for a binge at any moment.
    If stocking up is the alternative, why don't stores just open on Sunday?

    Stocking up has all sort of disadvantages. Opening on the holy day does not.

    And it's not that I would want to buy alcohol on a Sunday Redwood. I just expected that coming to the land of the free, I would be able to.

    Why is it OK to forego your freedoms for God?

    In England, any mom and pop store will sell you liqour on a Sunday. That is freedom. The Founding Fathers ran away from freedom and set something else up. Or so it appears.

  12. #12
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    If stocking up is the alternative, why don't stores just open on Sunday?

    Stocking up has all sort of disadvantages. Opening on the holy day does not.

    And it's not that I would want to buy alcohol on a Sunday Redwood. I just expected that coming to the land of the free, I would be able to.

    Why is it OK to forego your freedoms for God?

    In England, any mom and pop store will sell you liqour on a Sunday. That is freedom. The Founding Fathers ran away from freedom and set something else up. Or so it appears.
    Well Ian taxes are quite high on alcohol in CT so I like to take a nice drive up to New Hampshire to their state liquor store and stock up... The trip pays off nicely...

    Is your drinking so out of control that you can't plan ahead?
    Last edited by Redwood; 05-16-2011 at 05:00 PM.

  13. #13
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Default he sounds like a lush.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
    Well Ian taxes are quite high on alcohol in CT so I like to take a nice drive up to New Hampshire to their state liquor store and stock up... The trip pays off nicely...

    Is your drinking so out of control that you can't plan ahead?




    Are YOU Alcoholic ~ only YOU can decide
    To answer this question ask yourself the following questions and answer them as honesty as you can.
    1. Is drinking making your home life unhappy?
    2. Does your drinking make you careless of your family’s welfare?
    3. Do you drink because you are shy with other people?
    4. Is drinking affecting your reputation?
    5. Do you drink to escape from worries or trouble?
    6. Do you drink alone?
    7. Have you lost time from work due to drinking?
    8. Has your ambition decreased since drinking?
    9. Has your efficiency decreased since drinking?
    10. Is drinking jeopardising your job or business?
    11. Have you ever felt remorse after drinking?
    12. Are you in financial difficulties as a result of drinking?
    13. Do you turn to or seek an inferior environment when drinking?
    14. Do you crave a drink at a definite time daily?
    15. Does drinking cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?
    16. Do you want a drink the next morning?
    17. Do you drink to build up your self-confidence?
    18. Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of drinking?
    19. Has your doctor ever treated you for drinking?
    20. Have you ever been in hospital or prison because of drinking?








    What's Your Score??
    If you have answered YES to any one of the questions, there is a definite warning that you may be alcoholic.




    If you have answered YES to any two, the chances are that you are an alcoholic.
    If you have answered YES to three or more, you are definitely an alcoholic.
    Why do we say this? Only because the experience of hundreds of thousands of recovering alcoholics has taught us some basic truths about our symptoms — and about ourselves.
    If you admit you are an alcoholic there’s hope for you.
    Admitting you are an alcoholic may seem today like the end of the line to you, but there are thousands of people in AA who can testify that acceptance of their powerlessness over alcohol was not an end, but a beginning: the beginning of their recovery and a new, useful and rewarding life.
    AA have a simple, workable programme. It is a down-to-earth programme designed BY and FOR alcoholics. If you honestly want sobriety above all else and are fully willing to follow this programme without qualification, you have written your own guarantee for sobriety.
    THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR AA MEMBERSHIP IS A DESIRE TO STOP DRINKING.
    This does not mean signing up, or paying a subscription fee. You simply come along to an AA meeting, where you will find people who have been through exactly the same sort of things as you. Get to lots of AA meetings. That way you will hear different AA’s telling their experience. Among them you will find people with whom you can identify closely — people you feel understand YOU.
    MAYBE YOU ARE STILL NOT CONVINCED YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC.
    In which case, a few meetings may help you to decide. All we ask is that you bring with you an open mind.
    WHY NOT GIVE THE AA PROGRAMME A TRY? We did, and it works.



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    Redwood... IAN sounds like a lush to me.
    about half of what he types dont make much sense.
    and he needs to get booze on Sundays??? Hmmmmmm......
    that ought to be the 21st question....

    do you need to score booze on Sunday???..
    ....
    when his liver finally gives out,
    he will probably bitch about having to wait
    in line for a replacement . ....without having anything to drink......
    that will be an infringement on his rights.
    to kill himslef with booze.......

    you know he is not going to make a run to switzerland
    to end it fast,,,, no way is that ever gonna happen

    he will make the system keep him alive and give him a new liver
    to get his full share and benefits from the "american dream"
    .

  14. #14
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Now we have an AA forum. And what could be better than drinking alone after a day fighting with moronic customers?

    Test your liver enzymes regularly and adjust your boozing to keep it alive.

    If you cannot get booze on a Sunday, you live in the wrong place. Its all about politics, and those sin preachers, son. [non taxed, with a botlle of moonshine in their tabernacle]

  15. #15
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    If everyone here is so opposed to me hurting myself/others through alcohol consumption, so much so that they are wiling to obey their church and support limiting its sale, why is gun control any different?

    Limit gun ownership.

    Limit alcohol consumption.

    And definitely limit doing both at once.

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