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Thread: Grout or Caulk at Tile corners?

  1. #31
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Grouting or Chaulk in the Corners: Answers

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-18-2014 at 07:56 AM.


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  2. #32
    DIY Junior Member scottl44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    A properly built shower isn't damaged by moisture even before the tile is installed. Except maybe in a commercial shower or steamroom, the shower is not typically used more than an hour or two each day, so it has time to dry out. Sealer is primarily designed to help prevent staining, but it does help slow, but not stop, moisture. On a conventional shower pan build, they put weep holes underneath the tile for a reason...gravity helps move any moisture that does get there down the sloped liner and out the drain. ON a wall, it primarily dries to the outside.

    The reason I prefer a surface applied membrane is that there is so much less in a shower that can get wet in the first place on both the walls and the pan, so it will dry out much faster than a conventional shower built over materials that can absorb moisture, and, I feel, is a much better solution to a shower that gets heavy use.
    OK, are you saying that any water that gets through the grout will just come back through? Since this 30x30 stall shower is caulked on three sides where the 13" tiles meet the pan, the only "drain" holes are on either side at the front. I was reading on another tile forum that it is recommended to leave gaps in a few places in the caulk to allow for the drainage of any water that gets in. But where and how far apart to make those gaps; maybe at each grout line?

  3. #33

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    Scott,

    You won't find anything in prevailing standards that specifies "drain holes." Neither will you find and\y reference in the Handbook for Tile Installation put our by the Tile Council of North America.
    John Bridge, Ceramic Tile Setter :-)

    http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php

  4. #34
    DIY Junior Member scottl44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bridge View Post
    Scott,

    You won't find anything in prevailing standards that specifies "drain holes." Neither will you find and\y reference in the Handbook for Tile Installation put our by the Tile Council of North America.
    John,

    Not sure I understand your answer. The drain holes I mention are maybe called weep holes, but they are part of the Florestone pan I mentioned, so they may have nothing to do with tile.

  5. #35
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default John "Expert Tile Witness" on Grout or Chaulk at Tile Corners - :)

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-18-2014 at 07:56 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  6. #36
    DIY Junior Member scottl44's Avatar
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    OK, just so I can be clear, it is normal for water to get through the grout, and it just evaporates or seeps back out. Is that correct?

    Also, should there or should there not be any gaps left in the caulking where the tile meets the shower pan? (30" stall shower caulked on three sides where the tile meets the pan at the bottom.)

  7. #37
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Neither the tile nor the grout is totally waterproof, and therefore, yes, you will get some moisture to penetrate, especially when hit with the shower spray directly. Now, how far in, or how much will depend on how often the shower is used and the type of tile and grout, and the quantity and pressure from the head(s). How quickly the shower dries out can be a factor - the dry desert verses the FL coast, and how well the ventilation is done (often, how long the fan is left on, or if the doors or curtain are left open).

    There is no industry standard for your second question. Some like to leave gaps to make it easier for moisture to escape, some ignore that entirely. If the shower is built properly, it won't matter, at least from a damage viewpoint. IF the grout lines are not huge, and the tile is either porcelain or glazed, very little moisture will penetrate, and most often, that that does, evaporates in between uses. It's more of an issue on the pan, and unless you use a surface membrane, the slope of the liner and the operation of the weepholes are the critical things.
    Jim DeBruycker
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottl44 View Post
    OK, just so I can be clear, it is normal for water to get through the grout, and it just evaporates or seeps back out. Is that correct?

    Also, should there or should there not be any gaps left in the caulking where the tile meets the shower pan? (30" stall shower caulked on three sides where the tile meets the pan at the bottom.)

    1. Yes , if cemetituous grouts are used .

    2. No gaps in the silicone, nor I would ever leave some on showers or tub surrounds .
    Last edited by eurob; 01-12-2014 at 07:43 AM. Reason: adding text : in the silicone
    Roberto

  9. #39
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-18-2014 at 07:56 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  10. #40

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    The answer was directly to the above post . I did correct it -- NO Gaps In The Silicone -- .

    Thanks for pointing it out .
    Roberto

  11. #41
    DIY Junior Member scottl44's Avatar
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    OK, it's 13" glazed porcelain tile with 1/16" non-sanded joints. I think it's on backer board AND "green" board behind that.

    So John, are you saying yes to some gaps in the caulk where the tile meets the pan? If so, would they be best at the grout joints?

    I got this recommendation from this thread, first paragraph, but could never get any definitive way it should be done:

    http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...&postcount=139

  12. #42

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    Not really sure where you are going with this , Scott .
    Roberto

  13. #43
    DIY Junior Member scottl44's Avatar
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    Ever since I read that recommendation to leave gaps in the caulk for drainage, I have wanted to know if this is normal and standard since I have never seen such gaps in any stall shower installation I have seen.

    If it is normal, then I thought why even caulk the spot where the tile and pan meet? Why not leave the whole joint open since any water that goes in will drain and the air will dry it out.

  14. #44
    builder:anti-builder dhagin's Avatar
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    We don't leave gaps, or weep holes, inside of any shower caulking. IMO, weep holes are designed to be used in systems where liquid water is allowed to enter a closed assembly and then needs to have a path for it to leave this assembly.

    With properly constructed shower walls, water, in it's liquid form, is not allowed into a closed assembly. The only moisture within this system will be entering in the vapor form, and can escape the same way it came in.
    dana
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  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottl44 View Post
    Ever since I read that recommendation to leave gaps in the caulk for drainage, I have wanted to know if this is normal and standard since I have never seen such gaps in any stall shower installation I have seen.

    If it is normal, then I thought why even caulk the spot where the tile and pan meet? Why not leave the whole joint open since any water that goes in will drain and the air will dry it out.
    Every opening on the exposed tiled surfaces is a bad idea -- water penetration point , mold housing, etc -- . If your installation has any symptoms of excessive humidity -- wet joints -- for longer periods of time -- called problematic installation -- , weep holes on the bottom can help in resolving somehow the issue .

    The thinking behind is to treat it as an exterior brick or stone wall . However the conditions are so far apart . Besides water present on the face of the tiles , no condensation , temperature swings or etc. will be present for an interior shower application .
    Roberto

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