SOMEBODY is in deep doo-doo!

Jimbo · Apr 2, 2011

How do you have a $ 3 million house and have a hack job on a water heater which burns down the house?

I imagine an insurance company is trying to attatch a name to this situation. ( From today's San Diego Union Tribune:
San Diego Fire-Rescue Department reported that Thursday’s fire at a home on the 1100 block of Van Nuys is a $4.5 million loss—$3 million in structural damages and a $1.5 million loss of contents, which included two classic cars in the garage. No one was injured in the fire. The home is on the border between La Jolla and Pacific Beach.
Maurice Luque, an information officer for San Diego Fire-Rescue, said the cause of the fire was accidental. He said a water heater ignited gasoline fumes from a garage-stored vehicle. The water heater was not on a raised pedestal as required by building code, according to officials.

Redwood · Apr 2, 2011

Hmmm Makes you wonder if someone "fixed" a FVIR system on a Whirlpool Water Heater... LOL

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

hj · Apr 3, 2011

They might check whether the owner's were up to date on their mortgage payments.

Redwood · Apr 3, 2011

hj said:
They might check whether the owner's were up to date on their mortgage payments.

Accidents happen more frequently when they aren't.

Jimbo · Apr 3, 2011

It would have been REALLY suspicious if the cars had been removed!

There was a case here a couple of years ago ( just went to trial recently) a guy was way upside down on the house, owed back taxes on his business ( a gas station!), etc. Allegedly he enlisted an employee to torch the house. Unfortunately he chose a ?clumsy? employee who was killed in the explosion. The guy is charged with murder.

LLigetfa · Apr 3, 2011

It reminds me of an old joke, "how do you start a tornado?".

Three geezers are playing cards in their Miami Beach condo complex, reminiscing about their lives before retirement.

Gus says, "I owned a dress company. Did a million dollars in sales our best year, before business started to slip. Then we had a terrible fire, whole place went up in flames. Probably some disgruntled former employee. Luckily the insurance paid $250K, and I retired here."

Max says, "I was one of the biggest furriers in the city, put minks and sables on the backs of celebrities, their names would make your eyes pop out. Then all those anti-fur crazies started getting attention, really started eating into my business. Just then some nut plants a bomb in my showroom, probably a terrorist--the FBI never caught the son of a bitch--and we're wiped out. There was a half mil in insurance, but I just didn't have he heart to start over."

Sid says, "I made children's toys. Business was so good, I built a new headquarters out in the suburbs, offices and factory all under one roof. Sure, I took my son-in-law in the business, an idiot as well as a crook, but he's family, so whaddaya gonna do? Every time I thought of having him whacked, my daughter would cry, 'Daddy, he's the father of your grandchildren.' Whaddaya gonna do?Luckily business was so good--knock wood--that I was able to carry the little pisher. Then out of nowhere comes a tornado, demolishes the whole operation, and wouldn't you know it, my shithead of a son-in-law wasn't even on the premises at the time! It was a total loss except for the five mil insurance payoff. But what's money when you see everything you've built up destroyed in an hour?"

Without missing a beat--so quickly, in fact, that they actually speak at the same time--Gus and Max ask, "How do you start a tornado?"

Jacobsond · Apr 4, 2011

I wonder how bad the gas fumes have to be for a water heater to ignite it? Nice house nice garage how much gas odor would the owner put up with?I dont have a multi million dollar house or cars but in my heated garage I can tell you even with gas cans in the garage it doesn't smell of gas at all.Water heater not on a base? When was it installed and was it inspected?What was the code at the time? Im sure the fire investigator and insurance guys are asking those questions.

Jadnashua · Apr 4, 2011

It'a all about the mixture...reach just the right mixture of almost anything combustable, and add a spark, and boom, things blow up. Happens with mundane things most people don't think of like flour, cotton dust, literally anything that is organic. How hard is it to get a car to start when the mixture is off - often, nearly impossible. But, when the mixture is right, first time. Get the right fuel/air mixture and it doesn't take much of anything to ignite it. A new WH should have prevented it, regardless of whether it was on a pedestal or not, but somebody installed it without getting a permit, incorrectly, and this is what you get.

I wonder what kind of problems he'll have with the insurance company since this was obviously an incorrectly installed appliance. In some places in the world, they'd deny all claims.

Jacobsond · Apr 5, 2011

The no permit theme is a common in all the disaster construction shows. Even though a permit is a pain an inspection of your work is critical.Meeting the minimum standards is what the permit is for. If you hire work done and your guy says you dont need a permit you better check into it yourself.Not getting a permit can be a way for your contractor not to meet minimum standards or blow up your house in this case.

DavidTu · Apr 6, 2011

So what does not being on a stand have to do with causing a fire?

SacCity · Apr 6, 2011

Fuel vapors are heavier than air and tend to collect on the floor and low areas.
Was very much younger and lit a fire with either, volatile fumes, which rolled across the floor. Where the fire was lit the flame rolled across the floor as well.
It was a nice big flash, did not have to change the windows but wonder why.

I had a friend that was doing hard wood floors, and the last job he did used an oil finish. At the end of the job he threw the rags in a bucket inside his van.
he went of of town for the weekend, and the hot summer sun was enough to ignite the vapors from the oil soaked rags. If he had been home I would have assumed that he did something stupid again. Once the vapors build up any ignition source will ignite them. Working in the oil lab we would check the flash point of fuel and it was generally about 160 degrees Fahrenheit.

Michael

Redwood · Apr 6, 2011

Flash point for gasoline is -43 degrees F meaning above that temperature it is giving off vapors that can be lit by an ignition source.
When the vapors and air mix and the quantities are between the lower and upper explosive limits the vapors can ignite.
100 octane gasoline has a lower limit of 1.4% gas to air and an upper limit of 7.7% gas to air. Between those ranges ignition can occur. There is no such thing as being safe when the fumes are at the lower explosive limit. When the fumes are above the upper explosive limit you can be sure that at some point near the edge of the vapor cloud the mixture is in range for ignition.

The auto ignition temperature of gasoline is the temperature where the gasoline will ignite form heat alone without and ignition source and that temperature is 475 - 536 degrees F.

It's the vapors travelling across the floor you have to worry about gasoline has a vapor density of 3 or, 4 while air has a vapor density of 1. this means that gasoline vapors are 3-4 times heavier than air.

hj · Apr 7, 2011

quote; In some places in the world, they'd deny all claims.

Actually, what they usually do is honor the claim and then go after the person or company who did the installation. they would only dishonor the claim if the owner had done the installation himself.

The stand lifts the heater above the assumed level of a moderate amount of gasoline fumes. The new FVIR heaters have provision to "contain" the ignition if gas fumes are present and shut the burner down. Decades ago we were working on propane fired PanelRay space heaters in a small motel. After we turned the gas back on the guys were going into the rooms to light the pilots. As one plumber started to go into a room I stopped him. When he asked, "Why?", I lit a match and threw it into the room. There was a momentary flash, and I told him, "Because there is a gas leak in the room, and you would have blown yourself up." In another instance, the local lumber yard built a new facility, and the day they were moving a fire broke out in the old yard. One item claimed was a pile of oak plywood, the only problem was that the top sheet was the only one made of oak, the rest of the pile was the lowest grade plywood they stocked. "Fortunately", all the office records and expensive lumber had been moved before the fire broke out.

SOMEBODY is in deep doo-doo!

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