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Thread: Hot tubs

  1. #16
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    As a general rule, those with guard dogs object to authority run amuck, and do not pull permits.

    The insulation of the internal wires on a electric water heater are a moot point as the electrician brings wires into the recessed can at the top of the heater.

    The hottest portion, and these wires have whatever insulation on them that he happened to have on his truck.
    The sweet thing about inspectors here is if they see something being built or work being done they can obtain an administrative search warrant to enter the property for the inspection process whether or not a permit was obtained by the builder or not. Of course there are limitations to this rule but it does not stop inspectors in this tight economy today.
    If no permit was obtained by the builder the inspector can have the meter pulled on that property until they are in compliance.

    It was you who brought up the conductors inside the water heater stating they were either THW, 75 degree or THHN 90 degree conductors. I was just wondering which the water heaters where you live have. I know that in my area they are something different.

  2. #17
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Your FPE looks like a bit of a troll to me. FPE seems restricted to coaxial cable. Perhaps you meant FEP.

    In any case, this chart shows 12 gauge ampacity at 40 amps, not 45. [THHW] 90' Also, if one looks at the ampacity of #4 copper, it becomes quite understandable why 100 amp services can be wired with it here. Free air or not.

    If your water heater is at 194' F, you have larger issues than wiring.

    http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_12/3.html

    The sweet thing about inspectors here is if they see something being built or work being done they can obtain an administrative search warrant to enter the property for the inspection process whether or not a permit was obtained by the builder or not. Of course there are limitations to this rule but it does not stop inspectors in this tight economy today.
    If no permit was obtained by the builder the inspector can have the meter pulled on that property until they are in compliance
    SOUR, not sweet. But its true most areas, perhaps not Idaho and Humboldt county which has an owner builder set of rights, I forget the term, but with proper liability releases, you can build your pyramid of bottle caps. And wire it with FPE insulation.

    Proviso: Inspectors, unless they have your particular sense of order, are loathe to initiate such a process that may cost thousands with small hope of return. The legal system is plugged with a bit more egregrious crime, and the DA looks long and SLOOOW at these cases. Its more likely that a hold be placed for rehab at time of change of ownership, or a tax lien applied.

    When the owner say she is on oxygen with a bad heart, no DA on earth can pull her meter. And he wont get her medical records either. They cant even pull the meter if she stops paying. I think Thomas Jefferson has something to do with that, and he was certainly not an electrician. The PUC has a bible that trumps the NEC.

    So rather than continue the jousting, what wire insulation does your east coast heater have?
    Last edited by ballvalve; 04-04-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  3. #18
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Don’t know about your part of the world but here the DA does not get involved in administrative issues such as no permits. This is all Civil issues and the code enforcement official does not need any go head approval of any DA in order to pull a meter. It wouldn’t matter if the person was on oxygen or not the meter will be pulled. If this is going to be a medical issue the person needing medical attention will receive all the attention they require.

    My personal water heaters, yes more than one on this little farm, does not have any marking on the conductors but I sleep easy knowing that whatever they are they have received the seal of approval from UL.

  4. #19
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    This utility, and I suspect most, have a rate for medical useage. Once on that rate, the legality of pulling a meter are very complex and lengthy.

    The new problem is that we have allowed spy meters to have been foisted upon us. The utility, or the Chinese, can turn off our power from the antarctic.

    As to safety, that monthly visit from a reader was an important issue, and for enforcement minded souls such as yourself, much may be lost with "smart" meters.

    I am not a luddite, but our smart grid will bring future disasters. Funny how my washer with mechanical dials last 25 years and the keypad versions die each 4 years for 200 bucks.

    And it is interesting that no water heater seems to have any wire ID. And the chinese have a huge printing plant for UL labels.

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