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Thread: Equpotential bonding

  1. #16
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    That is a Very Good question BallValve.

    Where I live you hit water at 10-12 feet, When we have rain.

    I install all my own ground systems, because I live in the country and they don't even maintain there PolePigs. (Transformers are Rusty and leak oil)

    My tower Takes Lightning strikes on a normal basis, and I have yet to have a problem with the electronics connected to it.

    Now that every thing is put in underground with PVC, You can not even rely on it for a ground.

    Have a Great Day.

    DonL

  2. #17
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    With a rod the deeper the better.
    In most areas across America using a 8 foot rod will have around 300 ohms but to extend this rod to 30 or more feet will drop the resistance to 30 ohms or less.

    To lay one flat 30 inches deep is a waste of time

  3. #18
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Hello jwelectric and the Group,

    JW what do you think about using salt for increasing Ground Conductivity ?

    DonL

  4. #19
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Two questions

    What do you think the salt will do to the rod?

    How long do you think the salt will last before it is gone?

    I think it is a waste of time and money

  5. #20
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Hello jw and the group.

    It depends what type of rod that You use, as to what salt or what ever chemical you use to make the system
    work at 5 ohms or less. 5 ohms is a good target, for a good system.

    You posted "In most areas across America using a 8 foot rod will have around 300 ohms"

    That would mean that homes in the U.S.A. are not meeting the standard, 8 foot rods are the requirement for Texas.

    300 ohms ? it that resistance or impedance ? I assume if it is impedance then You are measuring at 60 HZ.
    300 ohms don't get it, Not in any spec that I have heard of, for grounding. Correct me if I am wrong.

    And of course you would have to replenish the salt as it gets absorbed, into the earth.

    You say "I think it is a waste of time and money" , Then many engineers are wasting time and money, for a proven method that works. But they shoot for 5 ohms or less. unless they are in desert sand. It does work, proven.

    I just want to make sure I understand what You are talking about, and teaching.

    I am old school and nothing has changed since the invention of the light bulb, except they outlaw the production of incandescent bulbs in the U.S.A. (No more easy bake ovens, or light bulbs in your oven or fridge) As far as electron theory goes, Still works the same.

    You will rarely see 12 8 foot rods at one location, Just to meet the 25 Ohm norm.

    I just want to be on the same page as You, What page are You on ?

    Have a Great Day.

    DonL
    Last edited by DonL; 04-15-2011 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Operator error...

  6. #21
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    There are chemical rods on the market that are filled from the inside. These electrodes take monthly maintenance.

    To drive a galvanized rod and add salt around the rod, the rod will be gone in a couple of years.

    The link below has some good information on ground rods
    http://www.cpccorp.com/deep.htm

    You can see that an eight foot rod or even two will not achieve much of an earth ground. At my utility pole Progress Energy drove 30 feet of rod when they changed out the transformer. I watched as they coupled three 10 feet rods.

    EDITED TO ADD

    This is an old paper that was completed in 1993 but the information in the paper gives a good idea as to how the deeper the rod the better the ground.
    It also gives a good idea that two eight foot rods does little.
    Last edited by jwelectric; 04-15-2011 at 06:23 AM.

  7. #22
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Sorry about adding the 'salt' into the mix...if you recall the details, this was for a short-term army exercise in the desert, where it is extremely difficult to get a decent ground. And, it was for improving communications, not for electrical safety issue or power. Let's not mix things up. Salting the ground is an environmental issue, and may not even be very legal today (this was from the 80's). And, as noted, is corrosive. These guys weren't worried about long-term, they were usually only there for at most a month, then pulled up stakes, and left.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #23
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Hello Jim and the group,

    You did not open the Salt Can, I did. I Just wanted a experts view about it.

    I know it is very corrosive and requires a lot of maintenance as JW was saying, But it does work.

    And it is used mainly for communications and lightning protection, like you were saying.

    Getting a good ground on the dessert is very hard when you have to keep adding the moisture to the salt mix.

    I did not know that it was outlawed. I guess when you are in the sticks you can still use it.

    I bet the U.S military still use it, They have no boundary on what they can do.

    I am not sure what the environmental issue would be with it, unless you have runoff or something.
    In the areas where they have to use it, there is no were for it to run.

    Have a good day

    DonL
    Last edited by DonL; 04-15-2011 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Keyboard Error, LOL

  9. #24
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Where I live, there are sections of roadway where they don't use salt in the winter to protect the wetlands...get enough of it, and few plants will grow there, either. Can get really messy.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #25
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    With a rod the deeper the better.
    In most areas across America using a 8 foot rod will have around 300 ohms but to extend this rod to 30 or more feet will drop the resistance to 30 ohms or less.

    To lay one flat 30 inches deep is a waste of time
    You mentioned the flat lay in an earlier post as a viable alternative to a driven rod.

  11. #26
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    I am old school and nothing has changed since the invention of the light bulb, except they outlaw the production of incandescent bulbs in the U.S.A. (No more easy bake ovens, or light bulbs in your oven or fridge)
    Light bulbs are an even more complicated topic than lead free faucets! At this time, the main thrust of the ban is "regular" bulbs. 100 watt gone now, 60 watt next year, and 40 watt the year after. (CA is on an accelerated phase out). So-called specialty bulbs, such as appliance bulbs, decorator bulbs like flame tips and globes, etc. are grandfathered for now. For floodlights, 60 watts is the max in regular incandescent, and I think those are going out. Halogen PAR bulbs are the favored replacement, as a halogen about 15 to 20 % less watts will replace the light of a regular incandescent.
    They are encouraging of course flourescent or LED equivalents. But LED is not quite on my radar yet. The best floodlight bulb I could find today was a 60 watt equivalent, and it is $60. I can buy 12 halogens for that price, and I am not willing to roll the dice that the LED will really outlast 12 bulbs. Supposed to, but remember they are made in China!!!!!!

  12. #27
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    They quit making bulbs in the U.S.A after the announcement that they would be out outlawed here.

    And I agree it is yet to be seen , How long the LED's will last, and 1 Dollar a watt is to much for a 40 watt LED type made in China, We could afford to make them here cheaper, If we would quit giving our jobs away.

    Pretty soon we can just get some of those Fish, off the coast of California, And hang them up after they start Glowing in the Dark.

    DonL
    Last edited by DonL; 04-16-2011 at 06:05 PM.

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