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Thread: ground rods

  1. #16
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randyj View Post
    Jim,
    in the area where I live the dirt is so full of minerals that it is no problem to get a current to travel through the ground. As far as voltage, I get as much voltage through my ground rod as I do through my neutral.... and it's 200 ft to the transformer. A magnet will pick up all kinds of small rocks in my yard. Of course, we're not all that far from Birmingham which is known for it's iron ore and this is coal country too.
    Basic Electricity 101 we learn that the voltage drop across one resistor in series will be equal to the applied voltage.
    From your service back to the transformer through earth would be one resistor in series no matter how many rocks you magnetic will pick up.

    It is not a matter of how much voltage is present it is a matter of how much current will travel through this resistor (earth).

    Check the resistance of your rod using the three point resistance test for ground rods but the equipment is very expensive. You could use a clamp-on resistance tester but they arenít very accurate.
    This will tell you the amount of current that will travel throung earth at your house.

  2. #17

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    Let's not have another bash Randy day... if anyone notices, I did qualify that statement by saying "as far as voltage goes". Just because you guys are big time in the discipline of electricity does not mean that I don't know diddly about ohm's law. Had I thought there was no change to current then I would not have qualified that statement. The fact that there is such a high ferrous mineral content here does make this dirt a much better conductor than dirt with little salt or conductive ability. I do know that I've used the same method of checking voltage and found that current to ground rods had around 64 volts. This is one thing I've referred to in the other thread. I found this where someone had swapped or confused their neutral with ground at some point in old house wiring. All the person who did this knew is that his/her light bulb still worked so "they" let it go and thought everything was fine... until something else got plugged in and suddenly there was a problem, something burned out quickly... or didn't work at all. I wouldn't call giving examples and asking questions honestly to be trolling....

  3. #18
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Randy,

    First no one is bashing you but you must take the statements as posted for the information in our response. You make the comment in your statement that;
    Quote Originally Posted by Randyj View Post
    Jim,
    in the area where I live the dirt is so full of minerals that it is no problem to get a current to travel through the ground.
    Here you clearly make the statement that there is no problem to get current go travel through the ground. Did you mean to imply that where you live current will travel through earth or did you mean something else?
    Based solely on what you said what I think you meant was the potential was the same on the earth ground as the neutral not that current was traveling through earth.

    Earlier you make this statement;
    Quote Originally Posted by Randyj View Post
    The one thing I do not see addressed here is the voltage drop in wires to earth ground or the differences in remote earth ground potential voltage. I'll be thinking about the rest of it...
    What would the voltage drop in wires to earth ground have to do with anything? Just what is a remote earth ground potential voltage? No one or at least I donít have a clue to what you are saying.

    Then in your last post you say;
    Quote Originally Posted by Randyj View Post
    I do know that I've used the same method of checking voltage and found that current to ground rods had around 64 volts.....
    Current is measured in amperage not voltage. Voltage is the amount of pressure and amperage is what is flowing. They are two separate things and mean two separate things.

    You say;
    Quote Originally Posted by Randyj View Post
    Let's not have another bash Randy day... if anyone notices, I did qualify that statement by saying "as far as voltage goes". Just because you guys are big time in the discipline of electricity does not mean that I don't know diddly about ohm's law. I do know that I've used the same method of checking voltage and found that current to ground rods had around 64 volts.
    If you had a full understanding of Ohmís Law then you wouldnít keep saying that while you were checking voltage you found current to the ground rods. You would understand that while checking voltages you were looking at the difference in potential and current was not in the picture.

    The only tools that the other posters as well as I have to work with are those you are giving us yourself.

    Please understand that no one is bashing you but trying to help you to better understand. It is your own post and the terms you use that we are responding to.
    The one thing that no one here or anywhere else will ever be able to do is help you to understand your mistakes until you are willing to listen.

    Based solely on these few statements I have quoted here anyone would believe that you donít understand current flow. if you did you would stop making the statement that while you was checking voltage you found current flowing of 64 volts.
    What you are saying in reality is that while you were checking voltage you found a difference in potential of 64 volts but this doesnít mean that any current was flowing.

    Please understand that it is not my intent to belittle, condescend, distain, ridicule, mock, or bash you in any way. It is my intent to help you to understand that the earth ground plays absolutely no role what so ever in how a circuit works. It does not let current bleed off or make someone coming in contact with exposed metal any safer. This is accomplished through bonding back to the source at the service equipment.

  4. #19
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Randy,
    I did not make the trolling accusation without careful consideration and it is not my intention to bash you. I've been following your threads and the bit of jousting between you and JW. Now, JW does like to take things very literally and it is my humble opinion that he will jump on your incorrect use of nomenclature even if he knew what you meant to say. Of course I cannot prove that just like I cannot prove that you use the wrong nomenclature deliberately to elicit a reaction.

    When I was a child, I would hang onto the literal meaning of words. I still do at times. One time my father told me to stop pulling the cat's tail. Being the smart ass that I was, I pointed out that the cat was pulling his own tail, that I was merely holding it. It still got me a cuff in the ear.

  5. #20
    Electrician ActionDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    ...the earth ground plays absolutely no role what so ever in how a circuit works. It does not let current bleed off or make someone coming in contact with exposed metal any safer. This is accomplished through bonding back to the source at the service equipment.
    This is worth repeating, so I did.

  6. #21
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    There does seem to be a lot of misunderstanding in the electrical trade of the purpose of the grounding electrode system and the bonding at the service.

    I not only see it here but on other sites as well and in the classroom. In every electrical contractor class I teach I ask the question, does the ground rod save lives? Over 80% of the answers are incorrect. Many licensed electrical contractors think that the rods allow current to dissipate into earth.

    I find it hard to believe that most do not have an understanding that current must return to its source. Many think that the breaker or fuse will not open if there is no grounding electrode system.

    To explain this so they have a better understanding I use 250.34 and portable generators that do not have earth ground but they will still open the overcurrent device.
    Last edited by jwelectric; 04-04-2011 at 07:20 AM. Reason: spelling

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