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Thread: Best Kohler Toilet for 2011

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member The Big Crapper's Avatar
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    Default Best Kohler Toilet for 2011

    I was trying to identify the best Kohler toilet for 2011.
    I currently have a 3.5 water guzzler over 10 years old. I found I was eligible for a rebate to switch to a HET Toilet. I've always had Kohlers and am pretty partial to them. I reasearched the list provided from the rebate program and have narrowed down (2) toilets that I thought would be a good fit.
    Both of these seemed to get good reviews.

    1. Kohler Cimmaron elongated with class 6 flush (K-3609) 1.28 gpf
    Contains the standard flush and fill valves, which I researches was only like 35.00 to replace if needed.

    2. Kohler Highline classic elongated (K-3519) 1.0 gpf
    Contains the Sloan Flushmate Pressure Assist Valve... over 100.00 to replace.

    Now I have been reading mixed reviews from the Cimmaron class 6 regarding flushing and haven't heard much about the Sloan version. I figured that the cost of replacing the valves was an important fact to consider. But wonder how reliable the Sloan Flushamate Valve is?

    What is the best Kohler toilet for me to go with? Would appreciate your recommendations.
    Oh and want to stay within 300 to 400 price range.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The Flushmate is pretty reliable. I personally gave up on Kohler awhile ago. I think Toto makes a better toilet. I'd look at the Toto Drake II or any of the others with their newest dual-cyclone flush (the II designation). Great bowl wash, very quiet, good quality. A toilet is more than just style, it is something that just needs to work right for a very long time. Unless you have a really weird older color you are trying to match, you should at least consider some others.

    Some might say it's like asking what was the best Yugo...
    Last edited by jadnashua; 03-27-2011 at 07:12 PM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    DIY Junior Member The Big Crapper's Avatar
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    Thanks for your response Jim.
    But I think comparing the Kohler to the Yugo was pretty harsh ... lol.
    If Kohler was that bad I don't think they could have survived all these years in the industry.
    I believe that you can find good and bad with any manufacturer.. (With "Yugo" as an exception of course) ...
    Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking the Toto line. I have read good things about the Drake. But I'm sure one can
    dig up dirt on the Toto's as well.

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    DIY Junior Member The Big Crapper's Avatar
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    Here I found the Toto Drake II CST454CEFG which tests at 800 Grams of Solids per Flush.
    The top rated Kohlers advertise 1000 grams. I can't seem to find a toto that offers 1000.
    Toto's claim seems to be that this is because they have created a better balance where more
    water swishes around the bowl to keep it clean verses more flow to flush solids through the trapway.

    Anyone else have any feedback as to their recommendation for the best toilet?

  5. #5
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    If you want a Kohler, then the Class five or six, or the Flushmate version.
    Any of them will be adequate.
    The Flushmate version is less pluggable. The class six and five have a tight bend at the exit that can plug sometimes. Not a big deal though. Don't' drop pens or pencils in the bowl.
    MaP testing is fine if you are flushing things wrapped in plastic that are 4" long.
    It does not test for anything else.
    Things it does not test for:
    Bowl rinse
    Parts, can you find them?
    Quality control
    Noise levels
    Streaking
    Force needed to push flush lever
    Percentage of returns

    Any bowl 500 grams or better is very good.
    Watersense will label bowls that get 350 grams on the test.

    I have customers that have both Kohler and Toto. It's hard to sell a Kohler to them. It's easy to sell them a second Toto,
    But either way, I'm sure a new toilet will be better then what you have been using.

    Things I look for:
    Bowl rinse, should be rinsed 360 degrees around the bowl. Afterall, you aren't flushing missiles wrapped in plastic.
    A trap that points the waste down the drain with sweeping bends. You want it to "leave" the bowl, not collect there at the end.
    Handles that can be pushed easily, when you have a large flapper to move, why make the handle so short?
    Noise levels, some are just to annoying for a master bathroom.
    Streaking
    Percentage of returns, If I have to return too many bowls, then I quit selling them. I no longer sell the dual flush Gerber for example. I run a business, and I don't have time to do things over and over again for the manufactures. They should get it right the first time.

    If you have large stools, and I only ask that because you are "The Big Crapper", then the Flushmate model may be best.
    Last edited by Terry; 03-27-2011 at 08:31 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member The Big Crapper's Avatar
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    Thanks Terry....
    I have to tell you that the more I read the more I see the Toto toilets shine.
    I think I am convinced to try the Toto. Now with this said, which model would you recommend?
    I want the best bang for the buck say to speak... I never tried the one piece versions, but if it was just a bit more than I would consider that too.


    Here are just a couple things I need...
    - Elongated model
    - ADA Comfort height (I believe 16.5 bowl height is considered comfort height)
    - white or almond color works for me
    - One that will work with a 11 inch rough in

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    Last edited by Terry; 03-27-2011 at 08:50 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member cwooden82's Avatar
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    Excellent choice. I replaced a very old toilet (it had 4 floor bolts and used at least 3 gallons) with the elongated ADA Drake II with Sanigloss. With the old one it was a game of will it or won't it flush - the "floaters" would disappear only to pop back up necessitating another flush or two. The Drake is phenomenal - one quick "gulp" and it's gone. The dual cyclone flush keeps the bowl very clean, plus it's cool to watch. lol As for the map rating, if your poo comes out covered in slick plastic that leaves no mark then I guess it's important.
    I paid $326 for mine, worth every penny. One thing, I didn't care for the Toto seat, ended up buying a soft-close easy-off seat by Bemis at a big box store for $36, very happy with it also.

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    DIY Junior Member The Big Crapper's Avatar
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    Thanks cwooden...

    Can I ask why you didn't like the soft close Toto seat? Was your toilet the elongated versions?
    What is the difference between the Toto and the Bemis that you bought?

    Thanks..

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    It becomes a personal preference.
    The original SS114 was dished pretty well, and for some that's a good thing.
    Some of the newer seats I'm seeing have less dish. But I have to tell you, many of my older customers when they move and buy more toilets, that was one of the selling points,

    "And I need the seats"

    At any rate, seats go on with two bolts. It's not a big issue there. And you won't really know what "you" like until you try it.
    Every "body" is different.

  11. #11
    One who lurks Basement_Lurker's Avatar
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    Once you go Toto...you never go back
    Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me? -Jack Handy


    www.blackbirdkitchenandbath.com

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    DIY Junior Member The Big Crapper's Avatar
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    It's to bad you can't test the toilets and seats first in the store before you buy them...haha.
    I'm not sure if you ever seen the movie "J a c k A s s", but they had a skit where one of the guys walked in to a plumbing store sat down on one of the toilets and took a dump in one of the toilets while reading a newspaper....lol. I thought that was hillarious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    It becomes a personal preference.
    The original SS114 was dished pretty well, and for some that's a good thing.
    Some of the newer seats I'm seeing have less dish. But I have to tell you, many of my older customers when they move and buy more toilets, that was one of the selling points,

    "And I need the seats"

    At any rate, seats go on with two bolts. It's not a big issue there. And you won't really know what "you" like until you try it.
    Every "body" is different.

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    I attempted to order my CST454CDEF(G) drake II toilet today. Unfortunately got another monkey wrench thrown into my situation. My closet flange is 11 inch rough. My inital spec sheet said the toilet had 1-1/4 clearance from bowl to wall with 12 inch, so I thought it would work leaving 1/4 space. Apparantly though the spec sheet that is now showing on Toto's site for this toilet only shows 13/16 space between wall - tank at 12 inch rough. This will not work for me. The plumber shop rep said he would call Toto tomorrow morning and double check those specs to see which is correct. if it is 13/16 then I am hosed with this toilet. The rep said he would then look into some other options to see if Toto has a comparable toilet that will fit a 11inch rough flange. Never can be easy...
    M

  14. #14
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The other Drakes work at 10-7/8"
    Are you measuring from the floor mold or the wall?

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    I'm measuring from the wall to where the toilet bolt goes on the closet flange (in other words the middle of the slot).

    How many new features would I lose with the standard Drakes vs the Drakes II? I assume they have the old flush technology and no sanagloss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    The other Drakes work at 10-7/8"
    Are you measuring from the floor mold or the wall?

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