Penguin Toilets W/ Overflow Protections

[jadnashua]

Before the water saving changes made to toilets, yes, if it was clogged, a single flush could cause it to overflow. That went away for any of the new ones. The original thought here was would this save you from a leaking flapper. I suppose, if the second drain exited after an internal clog and you left the toilet plugged, and the flapper was leaking, then yes, it would save things. Anyone that flushes a clogged toilet when the bowl is already full expecting it to clear itself deserves the messy cleanup. Hopefully, they won't do that again! And, if the clog is downstream of the second drain, it won't help in the least.

[achutch]

Just had a chance to watch the video, and saw that some water is sent through the overflow drain to keep the trap primed.

How does one keep the overflow ports and the area beyond them clean? I would think that on bad days there there are "explosions", that area could become filthy, unsightly, smelly, you name it. We all know how the overflow on a lavatory can get dirty fast. I would think the overflow on this toilet would have even more of an opportunity to become fouled, and that cleaning it would be unpleasant added extra work that might be neglected if it can be done at all.

I will stick with my two Toto Drakes (by the way, 5.5 years with the 1.6 and 8 months with the 1.28; no complaints with either).

[Redwood]

I wonder if BoyntonStu has been at work on this idea...

[molo]

OK guys, I had a bit of an ulterior motive for posting about the Penguin. I've been given the task of selecting a toilet that will not overflow easily. Is it possible to get a good toilet for $150? What about purchasing multiple toilets to help with cost?

Thanks,
Molo

[gusherb94]

I'd rather go for a toilet that won't clog easily over one that will clog easily but has an "overflow protection" system in it. Good budget priced toilets I can recommend from personal experience are the Gerber Viper or Avalanche, they fall at or below that price range. the American Standard Cadet 3, ONLY if you buy it from a supply house. (big box stores get seconds and they are often a disaster)
and of course Toto (Drake) is always at the top of the list of toilets to consider.

[spta97]

I was at Lowes browsing and saw this toilet:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_164841-19225...=#BVRRWidgetID

I thought the overflow protection was a great idea. Any opinions on this? The online reviews seem to be great.

They had this and what looked like a Fluidmaster next to it with a dual flush (up and down for #1 / #2) that had the same overflow but I didn't catch the model.

Just curious what people thought (and I searched so my apologies if I missed a post covering this already).

[jadnashua]

There's no guarantee it would prevent overflow...it will only (potentially) work if the toilet's trap is plugged...not if the drain line is clogged.

Also, no low-flow toilet will overflow the bowl unless you keep flushing it over again. If it didn't go down the first time, it's unlikely to go down when you flush again while the bowl is not overfilled.

[spta97]

Good points though I don't really see a down side to it?

I have to admit I overflowed toilets in the past because I thought "this one will clear it!". I do beleive they were not low flow though.

[jadnashua]

Way back when, a toilet might use 7-8 gallons, and the bowl is no where near big enough. Then, they dropped them to 3.5, and those might overflow, then they dropped all the new ones to 1.6g or less and those will not overflow a bowl as long as you started out 'normal'. House brands tend to sometimes be good, and some are bad but built to a price. Pegasus may or may not be a decent toilet, regardless of the overflow protection.

[spta97]

Reviews on the site seem good so may be worth some additional investigation. Thanks to the mod for combinding this thread. I didn't think about the mess that overflow could cause. Hmmm.

As posted in another thread I have clogged the drake on several occasions. I have never been able to clog my pressure assist but not sure if I feel like spending that much for a basement toilet. I also worry about it losing pressure after long periods of non use. Just keeping an eye out for alternatives and this seemed like an ingenious idea.

[Gary Swart]

If you have clogged a Drake several times, there is something you are not telling us. I suspect you, or someone in your family, is flushing No Nos such a sanitary pads, heavy paper, or other large items not intended to be flushed. A clogging a Drake even once is a very unusual event. Many of us Drake owners don't even own a plunger anymore.

[spta97]

I can assure you that is not the case. The issue with the drake is its inability to deal with large amounts of paper and a relatively small bowl design.

Although both elongated, the inside of the drake bowl is considerably smaller than that of my Kohler power assist. This causes a bottle neck at the bottom and, if you have too much paper, bam you get a clog.

Also, the toilet seems to count on one stream of water to get everything down whereas my poweflush almost does the flush in two stages. It is all one flush but the water pattern starts to remove content to clear the exit hole then more comes to get the remaining.

I have had my power assist for two years and never, ever clogged it. The drake on the other hand used to clog pretty regularly until I learned its limits. Also, since the flush is just gravity fed the bowl does not rinse clean often so I have to flush again - so much for water savings.

I am no expert so I can only go by my limited experience but having used both the drake and power assisted (wellworth?) there is zero contest when it comes to bulk flushing or bowl cleaning performance.

[rfp]

I have been researching odorless and overflow-less toilets for several years. Is this the first one (overflow) that made it to market or have there been others?

[jadnashua]

Overflowing an old, high-flow toilet was a fact of life. Since the advent of low-flow/flush toilets, it's a solution looking for a problem. Pretty much none of the toilets sold today will overflow if the outlet is blocked UNLESS you flush multiple times. An older toilet that used maybe 5-8 gallons, could overflow the bowl on the first flush. So, with only a little bit of thinking, if the bowl is clogged, do NOT flush it again thinking that will help. You have to either wait for the bowl to slowly empty, or if nothing's moving, plunge it as is. Simple common sense. Thus, at least in my opinion, this 'feature' is only a marketing issue. And, it only would help if the clog was IN the toilet, and then, it would have to be above the 'overflow' outlet, or, if the clog is in the pipes, NEITHER path would have a way to drain, and thus be useless. And, if stuff floated into that overflow while things were clogged, it could get clogged itself, and never work again. that overflow path's outlet has to be ABOVE the internal trap of the toilet (or have another trap built into it), or it will let sewer gasses in, so that pretty much means if the toilet's clogged, that path is, too.

A good toilet, for 99% of the people out there, and you'll never have a clog. People that use enough paper to clog a toilet either need to be retrained, or educated. They may be better served by a bidet seat. That's one reason why codes require a sink in a bathroom!

[dihewidd]

At our hotels, we began installing Toto toilets per your recommendation on your blog and we love them.

We have one tough location that we are about to replace the existing American Standard in with a Toto ADA compliant 3" flush valve elongated model, which is our preferred. In this public restroom, guests often clog it and then flush repeatedly, causing the bowl to overflow into the shop on the next floor down.

Toto doesn't offer overflow protection that we know of, though they are very hard to clog which is an overflow protection in itself.

Do you have experience with Penguin's model 524? It's ADA compliant, 3" flush, glazed trap, elongated with overflow protection (three holes at top of bowl with separate drain). It's $169 compared to Toto's $275.

Thank you for your reply!