Ideal dock wiring Questions?

[Randyj]

Oh Oh, is this becoming an enforcement-reporting forum too? If I post that I didn't vent my tub and ran my washer drain to the garden, may I expect a visit from the code locals? [!] And now that I JB welded my water tank, will ASME be out to cuff me?

As to bonding / grounding the floating aluminum docks, it seems Aluminum wire would [should] have to be used rather than copper, lest one build a big battery.

BV... and don't forget that you can't use dissimilar materials when doing plumbing.. .you can't glue PVC to ABS no matter how good it sticks together!

No plumbing inspector would let you glue ABS to PVC
Two entirely different materials.
Terry

EXACTLY Terry!

And if an absolute enforcement of every letter of the law was followed then I could not even change a light bulb for my momma if she in turn cooked my dinner....

[jwelectric]

I am not trying to be the internet police but I do feel that it is my professional responsibility to let those who have been charged with the safety of the public know when something as you have posted here is taking place on public waters.

As a bona fide employee meaning someone is taking out taxes and paying in your social security then for that company you can do electrical maintenance but what you or anyone else in Alabama cannot do is bid work from home owners and let them buy the permit. This will end up getting you in trouble.

I do hope you seek a better understanding of grounding and bonding from people in the know and forget all this cock and bull you are reading on these discussion boards before someone ends up hurt of even worse dead.

You don’t have to take my word for anything but if you search in the right places I know that the information is out there.

As to your analogy that fellow would be perfectly safe if the utility companies had never grounded their systems in the first place. The simple physics of current flow mandates that in order for current to flow there must be a complete path from the source back to the source so if the utility company didn’t earth ground and we didn’t earth ground then the little fellow could pee on that cable with no harm.

[Randyj]

Oh my goodness... here we go on another tangent.. PERMITS! In my home town not even a home owner can pull an electrical permit. That's why I had to hire an electrician to inspect my switch box installation and pull a permit so the city inspector could give his blessings. However, where I live now is extremely rural, no building codes, no inspectors. Not many contractors are going to come out here for a $50 or even a $100 job. Even if it were in the big city not many would walk away from their business to replace an outlet for a few bucks. If they've got the overhead of a good sized business they can't afford the $100k overhead to do $50 jobs. If they did it would be a public relations service for them... and still lots of people simply are not going to chunk out $100-$200 to have a switch or outlet replaced. If the electrical industry is the way the code implies and as you say then it needs to be changed so the electrical service companies can make money and the little guys doing honest and serious maintenance can do them a favor and take care of the little calls which keep them from making money... if money is the only game they've got. Nobody wants to get in trouble and nobody wants to break the law. If the rules are going to be strict then the laws need to provide for all professions and not force the big ones to be greedy and the little ones and the little customers to starve. If these less fortunate people can't afford the big companies then they will be forced to live in very unsafe conditions because they can't get the much needed repairs.

[jwelectric]

Section 34-36-3

Definitions.

The following terms shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them used in this chapter, for the purposes of this chapter, unless the context clearly requires a different meaning:

(1) BOARD. The Alabama Board of Electrical Contractors.

(2) ELECTRICAL CONTRACTING. Any job or project in the State of Alabama wherein the electrical contractor proposes to bid, install, maintain, alter or repair any electric wiring devices, or equipment.

I didn't write the laws I only try to obey them. Someone who can afford a dock can afford to have it wired properly by a professional electrician
If they can’t afford to have it wired and maintained by a professional electrician then they don’t need the dock in the first place.

[Randyj]

Kewl... don't think I mentioned a dock in that post... I wunner if they got a trailer hitch on their ground rod...LOL... hehehe

[jwelectric]

Cutting equipment grounding conductors is far from being honest work. It is in fact a very dangerous and dishonest thing to do to someone in the name of profit.

The big companies as you call them have things such as liability insurance that must be paid for by someone. The big companies have things such as workman’s comp insurance that must be paid for by someone. The big companies who pay half of their employee’s social security must make the money to do so.

Then we have the little guy who carries no insurance of any kind and pays no social security at all and leaves this burden on the big companies to take up the slack that someone must pay for.

Just one little question if you don’t mind. Do you complain when you go to the doctor about his price or do you just pay him for the services he does? Why not just stop by your local witch doctor that is out there trying to save some poor old person a few bucks and has no training or understand of the medical field to have your bypass surgery? You know not everyone can afford them rich doctors.

I think you analogy of people can’t afford to pay a service call is nothing but a way to justify your ideas and shortcomings.

[jwelectric]

Randy
I NEED YOUR PROFESSIONAL HELP AS A MASTER PLUMBER PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Let me start by telling you that the wife and I bought this little horse farm back in the fall of 1995. The house is 2250 square feet with four bedrooms and three baths, yes no one here but me and the wife and our little Chihuahuas.

From day one when it rains the ground gets wet around our septic tank and leech lines. We had the septic man pump the tank and scope the leach lines. He said that our septic tank was very large and the lines were all clear and clean. No problems with the system although the grounds continues to get wet there every time it rains.

Last year we had a standing seam metal roof installed, got more money than good sense I guess, and while the men were up there working I noticed a white inch and a half pipe sticking through the roof with no cap. I got on the internet to a DIY site and started asking questions about this pipe and was told this was a vent stack. Wanting to know more I kept going until I learned about such things as branch vents and stacked vents as well as a vent stack.

Now for my question. Knowing that you are a master plumber and scoring so high on your test I respect your opinion in this matter although I don’t understand why you would go to all the trouble being there is no inspections where you live. If I climb up on the roof and change the vent stack to a stack vent by stacking a brick on top of that open pipe to keep the rain out will my yard stay dry when it rains? If this works I will install a cap on the end of that pipe to keep the rain out. I would hire a plumber to do this but all those big companies charge to much.

Now if this sounds completely silly to you please reread this thread and see just how silly some of the things posted herein would sound to a master electrician.

[Randyj]

Depending on local laws!!!! You can hire a level headed snuff dipper or anyone to put that brick on that vent... or even to change your spigot at your mansion as long as that snuff dipper doesn't make any changes to the system. In my home town it's against the law to hire the school kid next door to cut your grass if he doesn't have a contractor's license. That particular ordinance doesn't have a damn thing to do with safety. That law is intended to protect the large landscaping company down the road from losing business to outside interests. These kinds of laws have great intentions but are wrongfully applied. If you knock all the school kids out of jobs then turn around and bitch about them sitting around getting fat because they do nothing but play computer games and watch TV, get on drugs, and in gangs because they won't work and have nothing to do then who is to blame? I guess you just blame their momma for letting them run wild as hell while she goes to work because she has to make enough money to hire a big time electrical contractor to replace her light switch. Then the big time electrical contractor has to make enough money to pay all those damn taxes to build more prisons to keep all her dope head kids in... so when we go to pushing rules and laws and thinking we can blame all the professional plumbers and electricians for all the evils of the world... and if we go in the opposite line of thinking we can give credit to all the level headed snuff dippers for saving the world. After all, it's not the president of the USA on the front line holding an AK 47 fighting the war..... but he gets credit for it and calls the shots... and he's the one who put you or your kid out there in a war to get shot at after having no more training than boot camp and a couple of weeks in infantry school.

[Randyj]

BTW... I report every penny that I take in. 2/3 of my basic living expenses goes to insurance.. .not to mention tobacco taxes and fuel taxes. I'm taxed to death and insurance poor living in a 450 sq. ft house trailer while you and your wife and chihuahua live in a 4500 sq ft palace/ivory tower. The resources your house took to build and the resources it takes to maintain is a huge waste of our natural resources and places a huge burden on the utility companies not to mention all the resources of the local government who have to provide police and fire protection as well as send the paramedics when you have a heart attack or stroke from responding to my posts....

Here's an email reply I got when contacted a MASTER ELECTRICIAN... a big time contractor!!! I was letting him know of this discussion to get his input....
The solution is a GFCI with an "isolated" ground. I.e. A seperate ground rod and wire for the dock only.
P.S. I bet I know the fellow that was arguing with you.lol

If everyone agreed with God then there would be no atheists.

[Randyj]

Here's a funny story. The police chief (now deceased) in my home town put up chain linked fences on the side for extra cash. At that time we had a city inspector everyone hated because he was such an ass and took his job to the extreme. He had been threatened and told to leave the premises by several home owners. The chief was putting up a fence at the mayor's house. Here comes the inspector asking to see his permit!!!!! Well ol' chief isn't the brightest bulb in the box but he ain't dumb not neither... he just coolly replied... "I'm using the same permit that I used when I put up the fence at your house!".... TRUE STORY...

[jwelectric]

If you would like I will start a new thread on the proper installation of a residential dock.

I will not address those statements concerning the laws of Alabama nor your remarks about my home.
The brick over the vent pipe is like the comments you try to use to justify your cutting of the equipment grounding conductor.

As to your big time electrical contractor either he gave erroneous information or you just don’t understand an isolated equipment grounding conductor.
To isolate the equipment grounding conductor is to keep it away from the grounded neutral conductor and does not mean to cut it and connect it to ground rods.

[Randyj]

Despite what you want to think about me I perfectly understand ground conductors, trailer hitches, and the difference between a dc circuit negative ground and an earth ground for a utility. No need for another thread or for politics... but maybe someone should sue the NEC and it's author because if I wear anything but cotton then I get a heck of a shock every time I get out of my car and touch it's metal door frame and the NEC says a ground rod for an automobile is not required.

[Terry]

Okay, now this has gone too far. All this talk about placing a brick over a vent, that's just wrong. And no, that isn't the problem with the yard getting wet. I'm pretty sure that the rain is hitting the yard pretty good.
Now electrical, I hire that stuff out.

[jwelectric]

Okay, now this has gone too far. All this talk about placing a brick over a vent, that's just wrong. And no, that isn't the problem with the yard getting wet. I'm pretty sure that the rain is hitting the yard pretty good.
Now electrical, I hire that stuff out.

That is exactly what my wife said. She has me stand out in the front yard everytime it rains to help me understand that it is the rain making the yard wet not a vent pipe. But I did think it was funny when I thought about the post.

[Randyj]

Mike/JW... you're one funny geeky dude. Looks like what you're saying is that I'm this level headed snuff dipper lowly nasty ol plumber who's pace maker is getting zapped when I get out of my car and all these Master electricians I've referred to don't know diddly about grounding but ME, the lowly nasty ol' plumber, needs to get out here with all my ignorance and teach these masters how to properly ground a hamster cage back to it's source of current. We'll just act like voltage drops and stray currents don't exist.