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Thread: Is this an S-Trap? Please help!!

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member derbarrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlarrivee View Post
    More trap arm is better, but you're still not venting the drain properly unless you install a santee and at the very least an AAV as high up inside the vanity as possible.

    Personally, I would be opening up the wall, especially if you want to end up with a nice looking floating vanity.
    So.... do you suggest that I drill through the I beam (see second pic)? I think the I beam is the reason why the bulider did not plumb through the wall in the first place. Also I think that the sink, toilet, shower, and bath are plumbed together and they are all connected to a vent (see link above).

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    Every drain requires a vent... having one vent for all of them is called a wet vent and is likely not done legally in your situation.

    I would fur the wall out or arrange the layout such that I could vent the lav properly, rather than go through the floor with an s-trap...

  3. #18
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    You still seem to be confused. Here's some basics. Every fixture must be trapped individually. The trap must be on the same floor as the fixture. Each trap must be vented. A P trap maybe better called a J trap, is directly below the fixture being drained. The water goes into the bottom of the trap, and up the other side. That means at that point, the pipe is sticking straight up. Now it elbows to the wall drain, but before reaching the drain, you must have a vent. As pointed out, a Studor or AAV will work although these are not preferred by most plumbers and not approved under some jurisdictions. These vents are cut into the horizontal live between the P trap and wall with a tee, a pipe extending up toward the bottom of the sink, then a threaded adapter to screw the AAV into. If you do not put a vent in this location, you will create an S trap. I realize the beam is causing a problem, but you will just have to work around that.

  4. #19
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    If this is existing piping and you are putting the sink back in the same place you are not required to update the plumbing so you may as well re-install the s trap

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    If this is existing piping and you are putting the sink back in the same place you are not required to update the plumbing so you may as well re-install the s trap
    Terrible advice.

    So because you don't have to do something properly, means you shouldn't bother?

  6. #21
    DIY Member Cubey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlarrivee View Post
    Every drain requires a vent... having one vent for all of them is called a wet vent and is likely not done legally in your situation.
    Pretty sure that's not 100% true. My roof would be badly littered with vent pipes for 2 toilets, 2 showers, a bath tub, 3 bathroom sinks, kitchen sink plus washing machine drain. That's 10 vent pipes!! Imagine an apartment building. It's entire roof would be vent pipes. I haven't counted the air vents on my roof but I know it's maybe 5-6 total. Usually a bathroom gets one air vent for the entire bathroom except in the case of my master bathroom where the tub and toilet are on an opposite, far away wall from the sink and shower. I think it has two.

    All of my drains work perfectly with no backing and no slow drains. And My house was totally remodeled/added on to (nearly rebuilt) in 1997. The original section of the house dates back to 1910. I doubt it even had plumbing or electricity when it was built here in Southern Arkansas in 1910. It has a modern breaker box, modern plumbing, everything. There's really nothing 1910 about it. Just pointing this out because this house must be up to 1997 plumbing code since that's when it was completely redone. And the way it's done, it shares vent pipes between more than one drain.

    This is how a typical small bathroom gets plumbed:


    My mother's house built around the 60's I'd guess has 3 vent pipes. One for the bathroom, one for the kitchen sink and one for the washing machine drain. She'd have 5 if we go by your logic.. one for every drain. (Toilet, tub, bathroom sink, kitchen sink, washer drain).
    Last edited by Cubey; 03-12-2011 at 09:06 PM.

  7. #22
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    Vents can be and usually are, joined together in the attic. Each vent does not have to be separate going through the roof.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    Cubey I suggest you have a look inside a new home at the framing stage just after the plumbing rough in is done...

    You're out to lunch. Every drain does require a vent, but that does not mean you need a roof penetration for every drain...

    Vent lines are tied together and there will only be a handful of roof penetrations even in a modest sized home.

    Also, there will generally be a stack that is capable of venting a handful of fixtures on it's own, this will usually be the largest vent coming through the roof.

    As for apartment buildings, until you set foot on a commercial job site, I don't think you should be commenting there either.

  9. #24
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derbarrett View Post
    So.... do you suggest that I drill through the I beam (see second pic)? I think the I beam is the reason why the bulider did not plumb through the wall in the first place. Also I think that the sink, toilet, shower, and bath are plumbed together and they are all connected to a vent (see link above).
    No, you should not drill through a steel I beam unless a structural engineer approves it. It was suggested that you build out the wall with furring strips so that you can clear the beam under the wall. Of course you will lose a little from the bathroom but it will then be to code.

    If there will be a vanity hiding the drain, would he not be able to run the drain right next to the wall and then jog the vent with a pair of 30 or 45 degree elbows, back into the wall and up? That was how I did my kitchen sink. It is under a window so I didn't want the drain to be inside an exterior wall. It passed inspection at the time.

  10. #25
    DIY Senior Member Rich B's Avatar
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    I have the same type plumbing in 2 kitchens. The house was built with no vents for these two locations. The drains go straight down. This is a 2 family home built in the 1950's or earlier.
    I redid one side years ago.......all new PVC to replace the galvanized and I added a Studor AAV......It works fine and there is no smell issue. It is easily replaceable in a matter of minutes should a problem arise. The second kitchen will have the same setup shortly as I am just about to re-install the cabinets and fixtures......

    Thats what I would do.....add an AAV.....

  11. #26
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Cubey; An "S" trap is an "S" trap regardless of the machinations used to try to make it "legal". The best I could come up with, for your original drawing would be an "inverted G trap" because that is what it looks like. But even though "G" traps are NOT specified as illegal, yours would still not pass an inspection.

  12. #27
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    I would just as soon see an S trap as a trap with a Studor vent slapped on it. At least an S trap won't fail and since it's a kitchen sink it's going to get enough use that re-sealing the trap should it siphon is not a problem. Again, why over complicate things. Code clearly says that its a repair or remodel of the exsiting fixture without re-locating the piping he can put the S trap back in place. There is no reason to put together some convoluted mess of pipes under the cabinet that won't do squat anyway. My own house plumbing is close to 100 years old in the main house. Not a vented P trap anywhere and it works fine and there has never been an odor problem. I'm not advocating S traps here either but short of opening the wall and running a vent, slapping an AAV on it is a waste of time and money.

  13. #28
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    ...since it's a kitchen sink...
    Actually, it's a master bath which would be less prone to siphoning than a kitchen sink/dishwasher might. I had a bathroom with pedestal sink using an S trap for 12 years with no issues. The inspecter gave me a hard time about it at the time so when I renovated this year and put in a vanity, I cut into the wall and tied into a proper vent.

  14. #29
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    I'm confused how doing it properly would be a convoluted mess? Personally, a trap arm that goes straight into a wall looks like less of a mess than a mickey-mouse s-trap and prone-to-failure aav on top

  15. #30
    DIY Senior Member jastori's Avatar
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    There is nothing wrong with the drain running vertically through the floor. The problem is that you need a properly vented trap before the drain line drops down vertically. The purpose of the trap is to prevent sewer gases from entering the room. The purpose of the vent is to protect the trap from siphoning dry. Whether or not you can run a proper vent line depends on what is in the walls and *above* the bathroom. If it is extremely difficult to run a vent line, then the AAV is an alternative.

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