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Thread: Advice on Bladder tank

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member billfig's Avatar
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    The other thing is the switch..which one and does it matter if I do get a larger tank like a Gould V80(26gal) or V100(32gal)? I think my switch may have been a 20-40 which I cranked up to 58 which by the way seems more psi at faucet but would empty quicker causing more pump cycling...yes? I'm thinking maybe I should get a 30-50 and try leaving it at those adjustments points.

  2. #17
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    If you have room for it, bigger is better. Read up on tank draw down and the pressure/volume relationship so you understand what you are really getting.

    I use a 30/50 switch in my home and find it quite adequate.

  3. #18
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    i agree, i ran 30-50 for years and it was just fine... many people confuse pressure with volume. also agree on the tank, bigger is always better... if u have the room.

    descent rule of thumb is that you want your tank's drawdown to (at least) equal the actual pumping gpm of ur pump.. more tank helps though.

    then there is the csv if you wanted to go constant pressure and reduce the cycling, in which case i'd go with at least a 20gal bladder tank. dont be sold by the 4gal stuff for residential use, thats for irrigation applications imo... residential systems need at least some drawdown.

  4. #19
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justwater View Post
    many people confuse pressure with volume..
    Well... you're confusing me now with that statement. More pressure will push more volume through a given shower head. The difference in volume beween a 30-50 and 40-60 is noticable. If the OP jacked his pressure to 58 to get more volume from a shower head, but yet the pump drops all the way to 20, I think he would find more joy at 40-60 than at 30-50.

    I would love to be able to run mine at 40-60.

  5. #20
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    you are right, it is noticeable... to someone who's never had 60 psi. but someone who has always had 50psi and no major restrictions rarely complains about pressure problems. i realize more pressure brings more volume, but if there are any restrictions.. it could easily take 80psi to do what 30psi could do.. as far as that "seat of the pants" feeling goes... most people in this area run 30-50. but its more and more common now with all of the "water saving" fixtures to need the pressure boost to get the same "feeling" they are use to.

    run that 60 psi through a low-flow head, then run 50psi through a shower with the restrictors removed.. the average joe will swear the 50 psi has "more pressure"... make sense? this is why i say pressure can be confused with volume.

    btw, i suggested he buy a 40-60 switch..

  6. #21
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Cranking an 20/40 pressure switch to 58 lbs. is way beyond what the springs are designed to handle which is likely a major part of the problem. You really shouldn't go more than around 5 lbs either direction.

  7. #22
    DIY Senior Member billfig's Avatar
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    Wow that's alot of good info! My pump is a Gould 10gs05422 1/2hp-probably a 10gpm? My well is 50' away, then 80' down. The other is I run from tank thru a whole house filter, then thru a Sears softener, then again thru another whole house filter, then feed the 2 story house. so I do have some rescrictions along the way...

  8. #23
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    You have a whole lot of restrictions there. Why the two house filters?

  9. #24
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Cranking an 20/40 pressure switch to 58 lbs. is way beyond what the springs are designed to handle which is likely a major part of the problem. You really shouldn't go more than around 5 lbs either direction.
    Ja, it crossed my mind to mention that but feared I would get flamed if I did.

    I too have a Goulds 10GS and yes, they are rated as 10 GPM but I cannot get 10 GPM out of mine. My iron filter and micronizer limit the flow. The pump will run constantly near the 50 PSI cutoff during backwash. If/when it doesn't, I don't get as good a backwash which turns into a downward spiral. My pump will produce 60 PSI with adequate flow for most use but then the micronizer isn't aerating the water for the iron filter.

    I agree that there are a lot of restrictions and with the second storey elevation, 60 PSI would bring more joy. It would be curious to know what PSI remains at the point of use and how much is lost to the restrictions. Sometimes, more is less, or less is more. If the showerhead is too high in GPM, the restrictions in-line drop the pressure and a lower GPM showerhead might actually give you better pressure at the head. Maybe that's what justwater was saying.

  10. #25
    DIY Senior Member billfig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    You have a whole lot of restrictions there. Why the two house filters?
    Not really sure why I put the other one on after the softener? I run the most basic filter 1st then a little better one(charcoal I think) after softener..

    1 is good..then 2 must be better theory?lol
    Last edited by billfig; 02-25-2011 at 07:32 AM.

  11. #26
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Two is probably not better and even one may not be needed. Try taking the elements out and see if things improve.

  12. #27
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    then u can try bypassing the softener and see if it is also a major restrictor.

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member billfig's Avatar
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    Geez, didn't I just replace those Tuesday I'll remove the 2nd cartridge. I was thinkin of renewing the switch & gauge but we are getting 6-10" of heavy white stuff by 5:00! On another note, as far as tanks, wanta get a descent one-which takes some searching..A good place I get my higher quality stuff from sells the Amtrol wx202 @ 194.00. Another place I tried also in the boonies can get Goulds & said v60 @ 150.00 or v80 (26gal) @ 198.00. That's it so far, though I think the Gould would be better and a direct swap.

  14. #29
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Given what you describe of your setup, I personally think a cycle stop valve and a smaller tank would give you more joy with constant pressure if'n the tank needs replacing.

  15. #30
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    A 20 gallon size tank only holds 5 gallons of water. That is not enough for a 10 GPM pump. For the recommended 2 minutes of run time, you need an 80 gallon size tank, which still only holds about 25 gallons of water.

    You have millions of gallons of water stored in the well. Your water comes from the well, not the pressure tank. If your pump quits, you are out of water, no matter how large a pressure tank you have. The pressure tanks only function is to reduce the number of on/off pump cycles. Using a larger pressure tank to reduce the cycling only means your pressure swings take longer.

    When using 50 gallons to take a shower, an 80 gallon tank will supply the first 25 gallons as the pressure drops from 60 to 40. About the time you get the water temperature adjusted for the annoying decrease in pressure, the pump kicks on and the pressure starts to climb from 40 to 60. Now you have to start adjusting the temperature again for the increasing water pressure. Before you finish rinsing off, the pressure has climbed back up to 60. So you finally start seeing good pressure, about the time you are finished with the shower. A 20 gallon, 5 gallon draw tank, will cause the pressure to annoyingly swing from 60 to 40 and 40 to 60, many times during the same 50 gallon shower.

    A 4.4 gallon tank holds 1 gallon of water. So the pump doesn’t need to start for rinsing a toothbrush or to fill the icemaker. But when you start a shower, the gallon in the tank is quickly used up, and the pump is started. Now the CSV is delivering a constant 50 PSI before you even step in the shower. No matter how long you stay in the shower, the CSV continues to deliver a constant 50 PSI, and keeps the pump from cycling.

    A constant 50 PSI makes for a much more enjoyable shower, that when the pressure keeps swinging from 40 to 60 and 60 to 40. A tank that only holds 1 gallon of water may cause the pump to cycle a few extra times a day for flushing toilets and washing machines. However, the CSV makes up for that by eliminating so many cycles during longer uses of water like showers and sprinklers.

    Larger pressure tanks don’t solve the problem of cycling. They only cause the annoying fluctuations in pressure to drag out longer and longer. When you use a CSV, the cycling problem goes away. The larger the tank, the longer it takes to drain, and the longer it is before you start enjoying constant pressure in your shower.

    I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard someone with a large pressure tank say, “I was half way through my shower and all lathered up, when the water stopped coming out”. Meaning when the tank was empty the pump did not start. Nothing is more inconvenient than having to dip water out of the back of the toilet to rinse the soap out of your hair. This doesn’t happen with a small tank and CSV, because the pump starts before you get in the shower.

    Even when they are clean, the restriction from all those filters is much worse at the low end of a pressure switch setting. With a CSV and a small tank your system will go through the low end of the pressure switch and be up to the desired constant pressure before you step into the shower.

    You said, “adjusting the pressure up made shower taking a joy”. Imagine the joy of constant pressure. Increasing the size of pressure tank is not the best option.

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