so we're protecting against a risk that never happens? sounds reasonable to me...Never but that don’t mean that the device shouldn’t be protected by one. If it is behind the frig then it won’t get tested
this is because those temporary construction outlets are almost always in an exterior condition, where a GFI is rightly required.the law requires that any receptacle that is being used for temporary power during construction be GFCI protected
yep, that would be right between those 2, inside the GFCI more often than notThis is exactly what is being said. If a GFCI device trips it is because there was a fault somewhere between the appliance and the power source.
If only it were so simple as choosing a "reliable" brand. There is a massive influx of counterfeit electrical equipment coming into this country from you-know-where,
so that going by brand marks is no guarantee of not getting some shoddy imitation.
There was an article printed in EMC about a year ago where an inspector stepped on a drop cord installed by some expert jackleg that had bypassed the GFCI device and the cord exploded under the foot of the inspector. Needless to say the power was turned off on that job site until the problem was solved.
It is those with limited or no knowledge of GFCI devices that do the most crying and try to circumvent their use no matter what the dangers are. If a GFCI device trips it is because it detected a fault current and opened. Those who know just a little know it is now time to figure out why it open and not start trying to blame the device. After all it did just what it was designed to do, protect people.
If refrigerators on GFIs was such an issue I would have thought we would have seen something on the news about restaurants constantly loosing food due to spoilage from tripped GFIs. Cost is the reason you do not see more GFI protection installed where it is not code mandated. Builders don't want to pay the cost of the subs work now so there is no way that they would be willing to loose another $20 for a GFI that was not required.
My issue is not with cost... I have about a dozen GFCIs in my house, a lot of which are protecting more outlets. I think they are a good thing, in the right places. I think that behind the fridge is a wrong place. I would remove the $20 outlet if it was there and replace it.
Code is written for the most common or the lowest common denominator. The most normal situation requiring temporary power setups is an unfinished, or not even started, property. There is a large percentage of times that temporary power, even if mounted inside the building, is operating in an exterior condition. Code doesn't usually make exceptions for things like this (that you don't need GFCI if its in a finished space), as it would just open up loopholes and isn't the common situation. I'm in agreement that temporary power setups should usually be GFCI. Besides, if most of the time they'd be required, contractors aren't going to have both setups on hand for the few times that its not required, so there's no need for a provision to allow that.
My workshop with all it's high draw tools will not be GFI protected. If that makes me unsafe, then so be it, I guess I'm a risk taker (you know, all of that using a tool for what its made for business...)
I'm having a really hard time believing that those of you who are so adamant about GFCI use really believe that they always trip for good reasons. You must have the most robust GFCIs ever, have never made a service call to a house with normal GFCIs, or only plug in lamps and clock radios. They're overly cautious, which is fine for appropriate locations, such as outside, countertops in kitchens and baths, laundry, etc. I appreciate the protection they offer, and put up with the annoyances there. I don't appreciate the inconvenience of pulling my fridge out to push a button b/c the stupid thing tripped, even if i managed to catch it w/o losing any food.
if there's one thing we should believe, its that the code gurus would have required it long ago if they thought it was a significant risk. we're in the era of all arc-fault breakers now... you know, for all those times that people jam a dresser against the hairdryer cord on the bathroom sink outlet and cause an arc...
if you guys want to put them on your own fridges, go for it. i hate to hear that you're doing that to your clients.
Under the 08 or 11 NEC the GFI must be readily accessible so it cannot be behind the refrigerator.
so, i always put a refrigerator on a dedicated line. this would require a GFCI breaker, unless you want a fridge cord coming up to a counter outlet or something like that? wow, thats even more inconvenient.
What I don’t understand is where all this tripping occurs. I don’t seem to have these problems but then again I keep my equipment including cords in tip top shape and throw away any that are worn and frayed. I have two freezers one chest type and the other a stand up and neither has tripped a GFCI device in the 16 years that I have lived here. Just where does all this tripping take place?
If the Asians can add MELAMINE to their milk and deprive thousands of infants of their kidneys, imagine the ease of making a 29 cent non-functional GFCI with a fake UL label on it. They check containers at the dock for nuclear weapons, not electrical outlets function.
How many people were killed by their refrigerators last year? Someone get the data please. Want to appreciate my point - try out a cheap GFCI and then go to vacation for a month, and come home to a 25 cubic foot box of mouldy vomit.
I used hospital grade GFCI's in my house, and still cheaper than Mexican arc fault jokes. Edit: just searched for an hour and NO US made gfci's anymore. I paid 18 bucks for US hospital or commercial grade gfci's a few years, now they are Chinese for $64 - fair & smart for our country, eh? http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LEV...LU3?Pid=search
Better rate ceiling boxes to hold no more than 50 pounds with special break-away screws, lest someone try and hang himself after finding his freezer at room temperature for a week.
Last edited by ballvalve; 11-21-2011 at 01:21 PM.
And also, what to GFI's have to do with AFCI's? Completely different animal.
At that time, they were US made. See my last post on edit. No more. Imagine the profit in selling us 40 to 60$ gfci's that are counterfeit - easier than importing heroin and essentially no penalties to face.
I see a lot of false trips in the AFCI's. And nothing more than greed caused the MFGR. to move overseas or across borders. That 4 cent extra profit makes a lot of money for them, until enough empty factories in America cause most of us to live in shopping carts and old buicks.
I see many favorite products on the shelf for MORE money, now made in Asia, than when they were made in the USA. Figure that. The day I see a chinese Estwing hammer, is the day America died.