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Thread: Incomplete Backflush or Rinsing

  1. #16
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksnakes View Post
    Gary S, I have a response but need to find time to inspect inside the resin tank and see what there is as far as an obstruction or loaded up resin. I don't believe the pyrolox (iron filter) is the issue. This unit back flushes every night (14 mins), and yes before the resin tank (every 4 days). I will be very reluctant to inspect the inside the pyrolox filter tank. The risk is dislodgeing the tube from the bottom of the tank and being not able to return it through the heavy medium.
    You asked for help and advice and now are going off in your own direction... which is amusing because if you knew what t odo adn how to do it you wouldn't be here asking for help with your system; which can't work the way you have it set up and for what it is, to remove what and how much of it is in the water.

    Example, taking the valve off the Pyrolox filter is not going to pull the DT up (but you mistakenly think it will). The bottom basket is very unlikely to be blocked up (but you think it probably is). But the Pyrolox is, and the only way to see if it is, you dump it out of the tank. Which makes it very easy to then remove the DT and look at it. When you dump it the gravel underbed will come out mixed with the mineral and you won't be able to separate the two so you'll have to solve that problem before putting the filter back together. Usually it's best to buy new of both replacing the old.

    And when yer all done, the amount of chlorine you are using is not going to kill IRB or oxidize much if any iron or H2S gas to speak of and within months the new Pyrolox will be like the old is now and you'll be looking for a new solution while being substantially poorer and more frustrated. And I may still be here to tell ya "see, I told ya so".
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #17
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksnakes View Post
    ...a nuisance gas at the tap.
    If a system is allowed to build up and then vent gas through the filter and/or softener, you are asking for trouble. Gas behind water will create bursts of excessive flow that can and will drive filter media up into the top basket if one exists and/or into the valve assembly.

  3. #18
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    You're talking mechanical filtration where dirt buildup increases the filtering being done but that is a turbidity filter, not an iron filter...
    Are you saying that the OP's iron filter is not mechanical filtration? I'm not familiar with brand names, just concepts.

    BTW, I have a basic understanding of how an iron filter uses a micronizer to aerate and oxidize the iron so that it can mecanically filter it. Now a system with micronizer should also have a tank with air volume control to properly vent off the air and other gasses. The OP should not be passing gas through the filters.
    Last edited by LLigetfa; 02-11-2011 at 09:13 PM. Reason: typo

  4. #19
    DIY Member JKERN's Avatar
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    That right there explains the problem with most iron filters. Trying to use a pump to encapsulate air into a tank thats ment to remove any air from itself during cycles. It's kind of like trying to sell the advantages of a square wheel it will work in theory and do something for a short time a cost you a lot and then breakdown and destroy everything down stream from itself. This is the main reason why you don't see many people who actually have to stand behind their product trying to push a lot of these units they are troublesome and more often than not you can fix your problems with a softener that has the proper resin and size with out all the fancy pumps and ludicrous name branding like terminox, iron buster, etc... Mr. Snakes you have the same problem that a lot of other people have and it's very easy to remedy if you do it right the first time. Like Gary and I mentioned before aeration is your best bet first then oxidation with chlorine then carbon and then a water softener. These are tried and true methods for removal of the contaminants you have mentioned. These methods have been standard in our industry not because they have a catchy name or that they are distributed through a special dealer but because they work. And with a little know how and some proffesional advice most anyone with some DIY knowledge can implement them. You say a holding tank and a second pump are too pricey but you keep on with that system and five years from know come back and let us know how much money you wasted on these gimmics.

  5. #20
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksnakes View Post
    I basically have a lot of unflushed or unrinsed muck coming through...
    I'm curious what muck there would be in a water softener. Really, by the time the water gets through the iron filter, all there should be in the water is dissolved mineral, no muck, no turbidity, nothing visible. I really have to wonder if the muck isn't softener beads that have deteriorated into fine particles because of the clorine.

  6. #21
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    If the iron system is not up to 100% then the softener will get to deal with left over of the iron filter.

    If the chlorine is high enough then the resin bed will become impacketed or not let water pass..
    Beads will no longer be beads but more like a sediment that water can not pass.

  7. #22
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    If a system is allowed to build up and then vent gas through the filter and/or softener, you are asking for trouble. Gas behind water will create bursts of excessive flow that can and will drive filter media up into the top basket if one exists and/or into the valve assembly.
    Actually gas in a filter or softener in the Service position, is not going to be able to go down through the media to the bottom of the tank and then up the distributor tube to be able to get out into the plumbing. Unless the whole tank is full of gas. Which it won't be due to the pressure in the system.

    Any build up in the top of the tank will go to drain during backwash.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #23
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Actually gas in a filter or softener in the Service position...
    I was not talking about the service position. I know what direction water and gas travels. Gas and bursts of water bubbling up through the media during a backwash is the only way it would drive the media up into the top basket or valve assembly.

  9. #24
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Are you saying that the OP's iron filter is not mechanical filtration? I'm not familiar with brand names, just concepts.
    With the addition of chlorine in this case it is a mechanical filter but, Pyrolox or greensand etc. minerals are not meant to be used as a mechanical filter. That's because if on dirty water those minerals will load up with dirt preventing them from oxidizing the soluble iron, H2S and manganese they are used to 'filter' by oxidation. Only Birm is used for turbid/dirty water.

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    BTW, I have a basic understanding of how an iron filter uses a micronizer to aerate and oxidize the iron so that it can mecanically filter it. Now a system with micronizer should also have a tank with air volume control to properly vent off the air and other gasses. The OP should be be passing gas through the filters.
    Use of a Micronizer means an air injection system, not an iron filter, and air injection must have a turbidity filter (and the off gas vent tank you mention, which is also required with an air pump system), and only Birm can be used with air injection, not Pyrolox, greensand or the other minerals used in soluble clear water ferrous iron filters.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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