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Thread: Just What Does Ian Gills Understand?

  1. #46
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Let Federally-paid marshalls or rangers deal with the culling.

    There is no need for ordinary citizens to do that here.

    You're not a backward country....any more.

    The hunter must be brave and honorable. He must summon the courage to give up his right to own a gun so that those who do harm with guns are also not allowed to own one.

    But so far it looks like hunters in America are just too plain selfish and cowardly to do that.
    Either this is a bit of English humour or your socialist UK indoctrination is total.

    I suggest you cull deer for a year with a baton or long spear if needed, skin dress and eat them fairly exclusively. That 275# will drop to 195, and you will gain a fine appreciation of hunting.

    If you eat any meat products, without having at least once performed the tasks from kill through ingestion, I would describe that as hypocrisy.

    The system of commercial animal industry is a bit horrifying, and the shot deer is a lucky bloke indeed.

    Here is a bit on UK gun slaughters. Still goes on.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/eu...389905844.html
    Last edited by ballvalve; 02-20-2011 at 10:53 AM.

  2. #47
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    That shooting in England was ages ago. They are as rare as steak over there.

    However, I read there has been another shooting in Florida today.

    Gun murders seem to happen weekly here. But I refuse to become numb to them like the rest of you.

    People die, buy hey its your rights, right?

    Wrong.

    And I was not saying that culling should not be done with guns.

    Just that the people that do the culling should not be your average Joe out for a day in the forest, but uniformed rangers who are trained and paid to shoot.

    There are people that should be allowed to have guns and those that should not.

    Most Americans should fall under the latter category, like in other civilized nations.

    We need to regulate more strictly who can own a gun.

    Does your job require one? should be question number one.

    Are you stupid? should be question number two.

    And so on.

    Many current gun owners in America would fail these tests. Which is a worry...
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 02-19-2011 at 01:04 PM.

  3. #48

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    Hmmm, I wonder how many lives are saved because someone owned a gun. Start looking for data on that Ian. Just think about how many times a life was saved. I bet those numbers are staggering!

  4. #49
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    And do not forget the golden rule: If you kill it, you eat it.

    Had a nice Sparrow dinner once when the ol' man caught me blasting a treeful. Made a lasting point. Plucking sparrows is hard work.
    On the other hand if you had emptied both barrels with #9 bird shot into a tree loaded with starlings... (That pesky invasive species that came here from England) He would have given you a pat on the back and a job well done...



    They can decimate a corn or grain crop...

  5. #50

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    Yes, yes, yes, Red, I love birds, but, those take down feeders, they swung my trees like you saw in the video and honestly, they scare away most all other birds. I love birds, but, it is very hard to feed them. You just can't. And, the mess, everywhere. I am very tolerate of them, but got to admit I get disgusted with the mess they can make. There are just so many. That video is very true...

  6. #51
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    That pesky invasive species that came here from England
    Your grey squirrels have almost wiped out our reds.

  7. #52
    DIY Member arfeller's Avatar
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    Whether we agree with Ian or not I believe he does have a valid argument. Looking at the numbers it is clear to see that more people are killed with handguns then are saved by them. Thousands of people are killed annually with handguns. The number people saved by handguns each year is pale in comparison. Most people that conceal carry do not have enough training to adequately defend themselves in a confrontation.

    Most gun ranges don't allow "shooting from the holster" and dry fire exercises, while helpful, are not commonly practiced.

    I think guns do provide people with an illusion of security. I know searches will come up with anecdotal evidence of individuals being saved from attackers or animals with guns. And I can not deny it can and does happen. The argument is simply that this is uncommon and more harm is done that good as a whole.

    However... Our constitution protects this right. And we have decided that this right is worth the price of 10,000 gun related homicides a year. Ian has a hard time understanding that rational. I can see his point.

    Just to be clear, I own guns. I enjoy shooting and it is a hobby. I think mandatory training should be required. I think mental health should be verified. I think private sales of firearms should have FFL involvement to perform a background check.

  8. #53

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    I think the numbers are high in which lives were saved due to a person having a gun. I would like to see fresh data with those numbers. I think, they are higher than what is posted with this site.

    http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm

  9. #54

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    Don't take offense Ian about the Starlings, because it is not said to be mean. They do cause alot of damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Your grey squirrels have almost wiped out our reds.

  10. #55

  11. #56
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    In Seattle, a man walking in a crosswalk, not bothering anyone, and was shot four times by a policeman.
    The man that was killed and is family had been a fixture in Seattle for generations. It was commonly know that he was a Native American, and made his way though life by carving small totem poles, like his father before him, and his grandfather before him. Later it was determined that he had a small pocket knife in the closed position.
    It was later determined that there was no cause for the shooting.
    If the policeman was so afraid, he could have stayed in his car, instead of getting out of the car and shooting the man crossing in a crosswalk.
    I like guns, but I'm not a big fan of, I need it to protect myself. For many men, we are better off cooling down and letting things be.
    I don't want to walk into my house at night and see one of my kids pointing a gun at me wondering whether I'm friend or foe.
    Lucky for me, I can still run fast.

  12. #57
    DIY Member arfeller's Avatar
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    "* Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to the modest 10.4% drop in Georgia as a whole.16 "

    I like this one. Apparently it's ok to force people to buy guns. But healthcare? No way... lol

    "* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2 "

    I found an interesting article on this number http://www.stat.duke.edu/~dalene/cha.../103.myth0.pdf

    The article states that 2.5 million gun related defense events happen annually. These numbers where gathered using a phone survey. So if i understand correctly the survey says guns are good because they prevent more people from being killed by guns? What is truly difficult to figure is the actual number of lives saved by these events.

    I enjoy discussing topics such as this. I enjoy reading other opinions. The only way for a society to improve is to think and debate topics such as this. I know my opinions are not always popular and are sometimes incorrect. I was surprised to see the high numbers listed in this survey. And after all this I should also say, I have had a cc permit for almost 15 years and have never had to brandish or draw my firearm for any reason. I know... as the great doc holiday would say 'my hypocrisy knows no bounds'

  13. #58
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
    On the other hand if you had emptied both barrels with #9 bird shot into a tree loaded with starlings... (That pesky invasive species that came here from England) He would have given you a pat on the back and a job well done...



    They can decimate a corn or grain crop...
    We had an Italian neighbor that lived for the pillowcases full of starlings that we brought him. You may know the Italians have pretty much eliminated all birds in Italy by netting them, Apparently they are a big delicacy.

    The farmers let us hunt their land if we shot all the pigeons possible. We ate those, fantastic.

    Pumps and automatic shotguns with re-loaded #7 and # 6 did the trick. The ol man had a 12 gauge Browning that turned itself into a part time full automatic! We kept pretty far from him when he opened up fire.

    Imagine that in the 60's and even 70's, 3 or 4 16 year old kids could walk down the railroad tracks through the center of a town of 60,000 with shotguns and rifles over their shoulders, on their way to the countryside to hunt. Never turned a single head.

    And maybe we should start calling Ian starling!
    Last edited by ballvalve; 02-20-2011 at 11:03 AM.

  14. #59
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Your grey squirrels have almost wiped out our reds.
    They have not been successful at all, your country is full of 'reds'.

  15. #60

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    Terry, it happens. There are good people and then, there are bad people. Good and bad in all professions. Because of this, I will excuse the cop who came to my house the night my husband had succumbed to a heart attack. He was plainly, an idiot.

    To think, though, taking away the rights to own a gun, thinking, this is going to reduce the harm from them, is very naive. No matter how much people do not like to hear this, a gun just may save your life, or save you from bodily harm.

    We do not live in a perfect world, and cannot fight bears off, and bad people off with sticks and stones.




    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    In Seattle, a man walking in a crosswalk, not bothering anyone, and was shot four times by a policeman.
    The man that was killed and is family had been a fixture in Seattle for generations. It was commonly know that he was a Native American, and made his way though life by carving small totem poles, like his father before him, and his grandfather before him. Later it was determined that he had a small pocket knife in the closed position.
    It was later determined that there was no cause for the shooting.
    If the policeman was so afraid, he could have stayed in his car, instead of getting out of the car and shooting the man crossing in a crosswalk.
    I like guns, but I'm not a big fan of, I need it to protect myself. For many men, we are better off cooling down and letting things be.
    I don't want to walk into my house at night and see one of my kids pointing a gun at me wondering whether I'm friend or foe.
    Lucky for me, I can still run fast.

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