Goofy dishwasher drain help

**jgold47** · 01-27-2011, 05:31 PM

Forgive my laymans description.

House was built in the 20's. Kitchen was added on in the 70's.

Sink runs through 11/2 (I think) copper through the wall down into the basement where it picks up a 1.5" horizontal run into the drain stack. Dishwasher is in an adjacent bay, but has its own 1.5" drain, whcih goes down and picks up the horizontal run. Dishwasher connects to the 'stack' in the cabinent via a 1", soldered to a 1.5" which wye's into the run. going up the dishwasher wye is another pipe into the wall which I am assuming is venting.

As you can see from the pictures, there is no loop/trap on the dishwasher side. at times in the summer (we moved in late summer) we would smell sewer, but assumed it was the garbage disposal which was pretty nasty. Then, the smell sort of went away. I need to fix the water supply for the dishwasher (incorrectly located in the cabinent), but when I pulled everything open I saw this drain that baffles me. This plus a mike holmes (dont laugh) episode where he mentioned not running dishwashers below traps as its a direct sewer vent, made me question this, and now I want to fix it.

So, my options are -1. rejigger the pipe in the cabinent, add some kind of a trap to prevent gas - I have never worked with copper that big and would be a little nervous about working with it.
2. Figure out how to cap off that drain, and run the discharge hose over to the disposal, or add a tailipe with a dishwasher inlet to the the other side of the sink (is there a prefered method?)
3. ????

Thanks in advance for all your advice, and sorry this is so long......

**jadnashua** · 01-27-2011, 05:41 PM

Yep, that's not a compliant connection at all! By code, you need an air gap before the DW drains into the sewer. A disposal does that as can a countertop air gap (and some places don't allow the disposer connection without a separate air gap). You'd want to check what Detroit requires before redoing things. I'd see if I could run it to he disposer, and add in an air-gap if required. Because the outlet is pumped, you can extend the hose. Each DW has a limit on how far that can be. Mine pumps about 8', around the 'U' to the sink on the opposite side.

**jgold47** · 01-27-2011, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by jadnashua

Yep, that's not a compliant connection at all! By code, you need an air gap before the DW drains into the sewer. A disposal does that as can a countertop air gap (and some places don't allow the disposer connection without a separate air gap). You'd want to check what Detroit requires before redoing things. I'd see if I could run it to he disposer, and add in an air-gap if required. Because the outlet is pumped, you can extend the hose. Each DW has a limit on how far that can be. Mine pumps about 8', around the 'U' to the sink on the opposite side.

Didnt think so. Thanks for the quick response. I will just run it to the disposal, every house I have owned, seen or replaced a disposal on around here has it going directly into the disposal without any other airgap.

Any suggestions on capping off the old run? Is copper that big a pain to work with?

**jadnashua** · 01-27-2011, 05:47 PM

The easiest way to cap it off is probably with a Sharkbite end cap...cut it off somewhere convenient, deburr the end, and press the cap on...no soldering. Sharkbite fittings are more costly than a solder on one, but if you don't have the tools and the space is tight, a Sharkbite is quick and easy. HD, Ace Hardware, and others sell them. Lowes carries a similar product.

**jgold47** · 01-27-2011, 05:53 PM

something like this?

These are ok?

**Gary Swart** · 01-27-2011, 06:54 PM

Some areas absolutely require and air gap while other areas allow a high loop before entering the sink disposer or if there is no disposer, a special tailpiece prior to the P trap. You can't just run the drain hose straight into the disposer or tailpiece in either case. An air gap will satisfy every code, but a high loop will depend on you local code. Best to check before using a high loop alone.

**jgold47** · 01-27-2011, 07:22 PM

802.1.6 Domestic dishwashing machines. Domestic
dishwashing machines shall discharge indirectly through an
air gap or air break into a standpipe or waste receptor in
accordance with Section 802.2, or discharge into a
wye-branch fitting on the tailpiece of the kitchen sink or the
dishwasher connection of a food waste grinder. The waste
line of a domestic dishwashing machine discharging into a
kitchen sink tailpiece or food waste grinder shall connect to
a deck-mounted air gap or the waste line shall rise and be
securely fastenend to the underside of the sink rim or coun-
ter.

sounds like a high loop into the disposal is ok.....

**jimbo** · 01-27-2011, 07:50 PM

Gold47 might be quoting another code, but CA plumbing code ( UPC ) mandates airgap:
807.4 No domestic dishwashing machine shall be directly connected to a drainage system or food waste disposer without the use of an approved dishwasher air gap fitting on the discharge side of the dishwashing machine.

No ifs, ands, or buts!

**jgold47** · 01-27-2011, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by jimbo

Gold47 might be quoting another code, but CA plumbing code ( UPC ) mandates airgap:
807.4 No domestic dishwashing machine shall be directly connected to a drainage system or food waste disposer without the use of an approved dishwasher air gap fitting on the discharge side of the dishwashing machine.

No ifs, ands, or buts!

yup, thats the michigan code that my muni uses.

I think I have a handle on all this, so thanks for the advice. Last little bit here

1. are those shark fittings ok since the drain I am going to cut off wont have any water (just vent air)
2. When cutting off the pipe (since this is a sewer line) anything I should be worried about? (I am going to cut with a recip.....)

**Gary Swart** · 01-27-2011, 08:52 PM

Pretty much what I said isn't it? Local code prevail. Air gap always OK, high loop by local rules.

hj · 01-28-2011, 05:16 AM

Mike Holmes theory is, ""I am the only one who knows how to do things correctly, therefore, if someone else did it the only good way to fix it is to tear it out and do it over MY way", so quoting him about anything does not impress me. The pictures do NOT give a complete description of the installation, but it does look like someone's complicated way to accomplish a simple task, if there is a sink near the dishwasher which it can be connected to.