Water Test and Softener Selection

[jimt2007]

Ok…here is what I have…..Community well I have a grain hardness of 21 …<1 of iron…no manganese.
Chlorine…can’t get a reading…used a hot tub test kit..showed none, but you can smell it sometimes…Ph is …7.6-7.7 SFR I came up with a value of 8 …based on the total wsfu of 10 using the UPC plumbing code…The number 8 represents all fixtures I may/would use at once...my gallons per minute is based on a timed test in the tub…both hot/cold running at the same time I had 3.5gpm…that gives you some idea of the water pressure in that community well system...I also came up with 130 gallons of water/day based on 2 people…65 gallons for each person
According to Gary Slusser’s site, I need a a 1.5 cu ct unit that which water hardness calculates @ 3250 Daily grains capacity with 26000 total capacity…salt dosage total pounds is 8 salt dose capacity is 27300 salt efficiency is 3413…days between regen is 8. I have read a lot on Gary’s site and gained a lot of information…he speaks of a “calendar override” is that a manual regen based on date??
I was thinking about getting a 10 x 54 resin tank 32,000 grain peak capacity 1.5 cuft …if that is in fact what I need…what about a gravel underbed??? 18 x 33 brine tank w/ float/salt grid…Fleck 5600 1 inch timered valve w/bypass…Installing softener inside home next to water heater area and putting brine tank outside (to save room in laundry area) …(brine tank would be about 10 feet away from softener) then running drain line from brine tank to downspout outlet nearby. What about the distributor tube… what dia should I get?? The plumbing inside this manufactured home is a rigid type similar to pvc and is an off white/yellow color…Skyline brand manufactured in 1999….does anyone see any problems with that install? What about putting softener/brine tank in the garage which is about 10-12 ft. from water meter??
I had a local water treatment company sales person come out and sampled the water and try to sell me a softener that combines both carbon and resin… .75 cf resin/.75 carbon and would only guarantee the carbon in the tank for 2 yrs…then $400.00 after 2 years to replace media and carbon and tank…from what I’ve read…not a good design and charcoal will mix with resin beads and shorten life of them…he also said that it was a 28,000 grain capacity softener flow rate of 8, pipe size 1 inch, aprox salt usage 40 lbs/month and would regen every 4 days …seems a little light for my application….I was trying to get rid of the little bit of chlorine taste as I know the chlorine shortens life of resin but not a big deal if I don’t. The .75 cf of resin seems undersized for my application. Even though I did the calculations, I feel I am still missing something given my stats. FYI the guy wanted $1995.00 plus tax for softener system and to install…I see a lot of profit there. The install seems straightforward. What about the 3.5 gpm rate… is it too low and cause channeling in the resin if I went to the 1.5 cuft??
As with all of you I am sure you are with me when I say… I only want to do this once and get it right the first time…based on Gary’s site and my understanding of his info as well as other info on the net any other help, thoughts, recommendations, salt usage, regen. times, equipment etc. would be greatly appreciated in helping me pick the “right the first time set up.”…thanks for you time…Jim

[Gary Slusser]

The constant SFR has to be higher than the peak demand flow rate of multiple fixtures you may have running at the same time, not just one tub but, with 8 gpm there, you add anything else that may be used when the tub is filling. A 1.5 cuft softener has 12 gpm.

A 1.5 cuft uses a 10" x 54" tank. A 32K is a 1 cuft and they use a 9" x 48 tank.

[jimt2007]

Hi Gary...Thanks for replying...I understand what you have said here. You mentioned that a 1.5 cuft softener has 12 gpm...so would a 1.0 cuft softener have 9 gpm?? Perhaps I did not expalin it correctly. The number 8 does represent multiple fixtures. It is not based on a gpm of 3.5. from the tub. The 3.5 represents an idea of water pressure on that community well system...I don't know what the actual water pressure is. The SFR I came up with (a value of 8) was based on the total wsfu of 10 using the UPC plumbing code...based on the number of fixtures I would be using at one time. My concern is getting a 1.5cuft softener and not having enough pressure to run it without possible channeling of the resin, or it being inefficient (too big/wasteful). Did I miss something??

[Gary Slusser]

You mentioned that a 1.5 cuft softener has 12 gpm...so would a 1.0 cuft softener have 9 gpm?? Perhaps I did not expalin it correctly. The number 8 does represent multiple fixtures. It is not based on a gpm of 3.5. from the tub. The 3.5 represents an idea of water pressure on that community well system...I don't know what the actual water pressure is. The SFR I came up with (a value of 8) was based on the total wsfu of 10 using the UPC plumbing code...based on the number of fixtures I would be using at one time.

You can't come up with gpm by guessing the pressure. BTW, 3.5 gpm from a tub is very low. You can buy a faucet tip pressure gauge at most hardware stores to find out exactly what pressure you have.

My concern is getting a 1.5cuft softener and not having enough pressure to run it without possible channeling of the resin, or it being inefficient (too big/wasteful). Did I miss something??

As long as you have 20 psi or more, there's no problem.

The guys that go on about channeling are repeating gossip IMO. I have sold softeners based on my sizing and salt dose/K of capacity for many years. And I included a water test kit with each softener and told the customer to expect 0 gpg soft water at all times and if they find more than 0 gpg, there was something wrong with the softener and to let me know. I've never had a customer with channeling and that is with up to 4 cuft softeners in 2 person households with a peak demand from a large jetted tub or body spray shower requiring the SFR of that size softener. You set it up to regenerate every 7-8 days (with a gal setting including a 24 hr reserve) and you won't have a channeling problem.

21 + (4* 1 ppm iron) = 25 compensated hardness * 130 gals/day = 3250 * 8 = 26000 (26K) / 25 = 1040 gals - (7 * 130) = 910 = the gals setting and 910 / 130 says it will regenerate on average every 7 days and you have 130 gals in reserve. That reserve is due to the control valve probably not having variable reserve; otherwise you'd set 1040 gals and not calculate a 24 hr reserve.

The 26,000 / 3333 grs/gal efficiency = a salt dose in lbs of 7.8 lbs rounded to 8 lbs/regeneration. Unless the control valve has variable brining, then it will adjust the 8 lbs as needed (only downward), and variable brining controls usually have variable reserve.

[jimt2007]

As far as pressure goes...I figured I needed a pressure gauge to determine the water pressure there...on my list of to do's soon...hoping I have at least 20 psi. You mention a variable brine control...in going with the Fleck brand....seems the 7000 has that feature...but may not work on this set up. Currently ( 1 person) my Dad lives there and based again on the calculators on your web page, a 1 cuft tank unit (9 x 48) would work just fine for now.....when he moves on, then its just me and my wife there, then I would just need to upgrade/switch to the 1.5 cuft tank...and re-program the timer as you suggested above....is my thinking correct?? Would the Fleck 5600 timered 1 " valve work on either tank size and it is just a matter of programming??
Thanks again for your time Gary.

[Gary Slusser]

The K of capacity is adjustable on all softeners by adjusting the salt dose up or down, although not all company manuals tell you how to do that or how to get into the programming to do it.

I don't like variable brining because you'll usually use more water than a softener without the feature because there will be more regenerations.

A 2510 or 5600 SXT are the best choices. And yes, you simply change the programming for more or fewer people; not the size of the tanks and volume of resin.