installing non-automatic transfer switch

ballvalve said:

My piece of illegal electrical work in a forest fire saved an irreplaceble home, while I watchd 30+ others burn.

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The original poster is not in a forest fire so there is no need for him to endanger someone else in the name of stupidity.

So why not write a sticky telling what a homeowner can do with a generator and a piece of wire when their is an emergency? Is this only a NEC law forum, or can we have some practical, life saving advice with all the neccesary proviso's?

I suspect you would do the same thing if the 100 year fire was coming up your canyon. No stupidity involved.

We can't all afford a 400 amp service in our houses, and the switches to go with a huge genset.

I don't think that anyone would disagree that things can be or are done and they can work. That does not in anyway mean that it is code compliant nor safe. It is irresponsible for a subject matter expert like a licensed electrician or inspector to give advice that would be non-compliant or to not refute less than accurate information. To think otherwise is ridiculous and might open them up to a potential lawsuit should something happen that was less than compliant.

Whether I agree with all the rules or not, I have a license at risk should I violate those rules. To continue to espouse that someone can ignore the rules designed for life safety is reprehensible.

Jim Port said:

I certainly hope that the garage is well ventilated so that carbon monoxide does not build up and enter the house. Waking up dead from CO poisoning doesn't sound like fun.

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I guess you missed the part about it being a detached garage.....50 feet from the house

and also that it is a portable generator....and my garage has a big door. running the generator with the door open and or the generator wheeld outside would be no more dangerous than running my pickup.....

OH and I also have a methanol burning dragster that I occasionally run in the garage......I have as of yet not woken up dead....but I have to admit I've been close.....

I did miss the detached part, although I know one family that tried to hide the generator in their garage so the neighbors did not know they had power while everyone else was out of power. They were close to waking up dead.

ballvalve said:

So why not write a sticky telling what a homeowner can do with a generator and a piece of wire when their is an emergency? Is this only a NEC law forum, or can we have some practical, life saving advice with all the neccesary proviso's?

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All the necessary provisos are life safety issues. What you posted is not only illegal but very dangerous even with a looming fire storm of the century.

ballvalve said:

I suspect you would do the same thing if the 100 year fire was coming up your canyon. No stupidity involved.

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No common sense tells me that if a fire of the century is booming down on me to get the hell out of there and not spend no time trying to fuel the tank of a generator.

ballvalve said:

We can't all afford a 400 amp service in our houses, and the switches to go with a huge genset.

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But the cost of a couple of drop cords are a lot cheaper than the rig that you posted and a lot faster to install and safer.

I think someone posted the use of all these cords and having to go outside. If one has one ounce of a brain then they know that they have to go outside to start and refuel the generator. I hope that everyone has enough sense to not run a generator in a detached garage. The exhaust system for a generator and an automobile is different. The generator can and will let sparks pass the muffler where you car or truck won’t. So attached, detached, and basements are no place for a generator.

JW your posts all point to one thing......DANGER...WARNING....DON'T DO IT....RUN AWAY......YOU'LL DIE....YOU'LL START A FIRE......YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER.....BE CAREFULL.......YOU NEED TO FOLLOW THE RULES.....THE NANNY STATE WILL PROTECT YOU......THE CODE ENFORCERS ARE WATCHING YOUR EVERY MOVE............LOL

I'll leave now so you can continue with your warnings and advice and code book recitings....

Rich B said:

JW your posts all point to one thing......DANGER...WARNING....DON'T DO IT....RUN AWAY......YOU'LL DIE....YOU'LL START A FIRE......YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER.....BE CAREFULL.......YOU NEED TO FOLLOW THE RULES.....THE NANNY STATE WILL PROTECT YOU......THE CODE ENFORCERS ARE WATCHING YOUR EVERY MOVE............LOL

I'll leave now so you can continue with your warnings and advice and code book recitings....

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Well I certainly hope that you remain safe in your endeavors. I also hope that you keep safety at the top of your list.

Remember only you are the one to keep you safe and if your safety does not matter then please keep the safety of others at the top.

RULES

I once heard someone say that rules were made to be broken. I ask if rules are made to be broken then why waste time in making rules? The simple answer is, if you don’t care and respect yourself this in no way give you the right to disrespect and not care for me. Rules are put into place to insure that what you do does not endanger me. Now obey the rules before you hurt me or someone close to me.

thanks

Jwelectric -

I have carefully read your final advisory and will use it. Thanks again for your generous advice.

All the necessary provisos are life safety issues. What you posted is not only illegal but very dangerous even with a looming fire storm of the century.

Originally Posted by ballvalve
I suspect you would do the same thing if the 100 year fire was coming up your canyon. No stupidity involved.No common sense tells me that if a fire of the century is booming down on me to get the hell out of there and not spend no time trying to fuel the tank of a generator.

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You would let your house burn down Without giving it a fight? Does not sound like a Rock of the Marne type of attitude.

Every person that evacuated lost all their property. The few that had a can do attitude all survived nicely and saved their houses.

Most wildfires give warning, and the bright ones already had the genset fueled and oiled and exercised during the summer. And a jumper designed to [tecnique edited out beforehand] get power to any circuit needed one at a time.

Australia has studied these fires carefully and have decided on a system of encouraging people to stay with their houses in a wildfire, if they are able bodied and have some form of safe spot to retire to. Most houses have the needed clearance by law, so a one handed cripple with a hose only need wet the roof if flammable and put out ember started spot fires, and move junk away from the house to make the difference between success and catastrophe. The people that die in wildfires are typically the ones that leave at the LAST moment, and get stuck in a car. So either stay put or run EARLY.

I built in a 1" 100' radius rainbird on my roof, and a direct assault on the stucco house with a flamethrower would have had no effect. But it needed a genset and a wire.

Maybe you saw me and a friend on FOX national news. Shots of the sprinkler, generator half ass wired up, and a smoldering mass of destroyed homes and lives all around us. And like you, FOX made a big statement at the end of this magic story "DO NOT TRY THIS YOURSELF!"

If you don't delete this I'll edit in a photo later.

All is good for you and your wildfire so let’s end that part of this thread and try to get back on track.

I will delete each and every time someone post directions on how to install a generator as you did. The owner of this site has charged me as a moderator for this very reason. Should you have a compliant I would suggest you direct the complaint to either him or me in a private message but no longer in this thread.

Enough said?

No complaints if the boss considers advice for emergencys too dangerous to his liability policy to post. But it certainly dilutes the value of this site.

But I think this electrical forum should be moved to a NEC code "forum" so that we know that what REALLY happens in the field cannot be discussed.

The Well and plumbing forums have a lot of dopey posts that could maim and fry you, but the simple and fair solution there are posts that correct or refute the issue.

THAT is a "FORUM".

If you have looked at workmans compensation rates lately, electricians are low on the scale. Its the roofers, carpenters, loggers that get killed daily. So perhaps your dire warnings are a bit overworked.

Ballvalve what you have said above most certainly speaks for itself. It is true that there are less injuries in the electrical trade than in others but I don’t believe the roofers have any type of code other than what the building codes requires.

On the other hand the electrical trade has a very strict safety code and what you have posted says a lot for the safety in the electrical trade.

It seems that most of those who end up hurt are due to the misuse to electricity by those who know just enough to be dangerous.

Being that the original poster has not returned and you seem to want to use this as some sort of sounding board I shall close the thread. Should the original poster need future advice feel free to start another thread.