Air in water sometimes

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Rick H

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Help wanted or new ideas appreciated. I live in s.e. Texas and my well is 20 years old. I have a well with a submersable pump 3-500' deep, high pressure release valve at well head outside, bladder tank, check valve, pressure switch and gauge in garage. The problem with air in system started about a year ago and I have tried to troubleshoot and suspect the next step is to pull the wells down pipe up to see if it has a check valve and if it is defective. The strange thing about this air in system is that the amout of air greatly increases after it rains? The air will be mixed with water as it come out of the faucets and the goes away for a few seconds and may return several times as the well turns on. The original set up has a galvanized gravity holding tank with a schreader valve before the check valve. The holding tank devolped a leak and I replaced it with the bladder tank and all was working normal without any air. Years later the air started. I first replaced pressure release valve and the core in the schreader valve due to a water leak and it was ok for a few months then I capped off the schreader valve thinking it was drawing air in past the schreader valve. Found out that the blader tank did not need the schreader valve and that was probably my problem. We have had some dry weather and the air problem was 90% better then after it rained the problem is back. I then replaced the check valve, pressure gauge, pressure switch and eliminated the schreader valve and thought it was back to 90-100% better but again the air is still there. Now I think I need to somehow leak test from the check valve to the down pipe? The gauge does not indicate any leaks as far as pressure loss and the well water is clean except when the air is mixed in it gets cloudy when put in a glass it will turn clear after awhile. Sorry for the long post as I am not a plumber.
 

Valveman

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Remove the above ground check valve completely. Or at least pull the guts out of the check valve. You will then either find that you have a leak down hole, because the pressure decreases when no water is being used, or the air problem will go away.
 

Ichabod

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Go to: http://www.pumpsonline.com/AirChargePic.htm and go to the bottom of the page. Sounds like you started with the "air charging system" and tried to change it to a "pre charged system". I think there are some descriptions of how they work, but briefly, when the "air charging system" finishes pumping water the pump shuts off, the check valve closes, the bleeder valve lets water out of the down pipe and air enters through the schrader valve into the down pipe until the water has gone down to the bleeder valve. When the pump starts up again the air in the down pipe is blown into the tank. The air ejector maintains the air level in the tank. When you changed to the bladder tank you eliminated the ejector valve so the air has no place to go except out with the water. If this is the system you have I think the only solution is to change back to a tank without the bladder or pull the down pipe and remove the bleeder valve and plug the schrader valve. (Some times the bleeder valve will fail in the closed position.) Either way I think you still will need the check valve.

HTH,
Ichabod
 

Valveman

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The bleeder doesn't open until the check valve closes, which takes all the pressure off the bleeder. The ball or flapper in the bleeder then drops and lets the pipe drain and fill with air. If you remove the above ground check valve, or at least disable it, the bleeder can't open as long as it still works properly. Then you don't have to pull the pump to plug the bleeder. But if after removing the check valve the pressure drops while not using any water, the bleeder is stuck open or there is a hole in the drop pipe. Then either way it has to be pulled to be fixed. You don't want a check above ground when using a bladder tank anyway.
 

Rick H

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Remove the above ground check valve completely. Or at least pull the guts out of the check valve. You will then either find that you have a leak down hole, because the pressure decreases when no water is being used, or the air problem will go away.

I understand why to remove the above ground check valve to see if it leaks down but how would that cause the air problem to go away?
 

Rick H

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Go to: http://www.pumpsonline.com/AirChargePic.htm and go to the bottom of the page. Sounds like you started with the "air charging system" and tried to change it to a "pre charged system". I think there are some descriptions of how they work, but briefly, when the "air charging system" finishes pumping water the pump shuts off, the check valve closes, the bleeder valve lets water out of the down pipe and air enters through the schrader valve into the down pipe until the water has gone down to the bleeder valve. When the pump starts up again the air in the down pipe is blown into the tank. The air ejector maintains the air level in the tank. When you changed to the bladder tank you eliminated the ejector valve so the air has no place to go except out with the water. If this is the system you have I think the only solution is to change back to a tank without the bladder or pull the down pipe and remove the bleeder valve and plug the schrader valve. (Some times the bleeder valve will fail in the closed position.) Either way I think you still will need the check valve.

HTH,
Ichabod
Thank you for the helpful link as now I can understand how the "bleeder valve" works, still do not undersatnd why it worked for several years after install and what rain has to do with the air problem. Any ideas of how to leak check? I know to watch the pressure gauge with above ground check valve removed and was thinking about blocking off line from well head to tank and using air pressure or vacuum or a smoke machine to check for leak, 100' of 1" that goes under drive way from house to well. Do you know how to check for leak in down pipe?
 

Cacher_Chick

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The idea that rain has something to do with it defies all logic. I would set that idea aside an concentrate more on the symptoms.

With a bleeder system or a leak, if you stand next to the pressure tank and listen for the first few seconds after the pump kicks on, you can hear the air charge come into the tank before the water. If you switched to a bladder tank, this air has no where to go other than out the faucets. Another type of system uses a snifter valve adjacent to the tank that allows air in.

In any case, if you can hear this air charge coming into the tank, you have a leak. The leak might be a bad check valve, a bleeder, or a rust hole in the drop pipe. In many cases one can take the well cap off and listen closely while the pump cycles. The sound of water or air spraying is not good.
 

Texas Wellman

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There is some water in our area that naturally has gas in it and will gas up your tank. My water growing up looked milky for probably about 20-30 seconds. It's possible that the gas may be a new thing and not have anything to do with your schrader valve/possible air maker. Don't know why the rain would have any effect. Might add a small galv. tank with air release if it is confirmed that there are no leaks down hole.

If the original galv. tank rusted out it is likely that your water is aggressive and has eaten a hole in the original pipe, which is probably galvanized.

What part of SE Texas are you in?
 

Ichabod

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My water looks milky if I draw it about the time the pump starts up. I'm quite sure mine is jillions of tiny air bubbles because of air being blown into the tank and not some other kind of gas. My father's water about 20 miles away does the same thing. After a few seconds all the bubbles are gone and the water is clear.

Ichabod
 
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