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  1. #1
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Default posting here

    Let me be the devils advocate...at the risk of starting a firestorm.

    You have the luxury of taking a somewhat high and mighty attitude with respect to the NEC, because it is a National Standard, and of course who can argue about safety!

    With plumbing, we are also concerned about the health and safety of the populace, AND we have to deal with codes that vary from state to state, and town to town, and in California can vary from building to building .

    Plumbers argue about the appropriateness and interpretation of codes all the time. I have noticed plenty of articles on the internet where the "sensibility" of code sections is questioned, as is the motivation of those who write the codes. Just like it is in the plumbing codes.


    Anyway, we don't want anyone hurting themselves with gas, or backflow, or carbon monoxide, or with electrons.

    When obviously incorrect or unsafe information is posted in any category, we hope a moderator or another forum member will jump in on it. As for deleting posts, especially in electrical, we will leave that to the electricians and Terry. I don't know what was up in some of the threads....but for the reocord this moderator did not delete any posts, even if we would like to invite Ian to a Boston Tea Party!

  2. #2
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    I have not deleted any post either and would not unless the information contained therein was a life safety issue or it was someone who was outright slandering someone else.

    As a moderator on other sites I will usually contact the person making a questionable post through a private message to inform them there are treading on thin ice. I will give them a chance to correct their mistake their self but if they don’t then I will take the appropriate action.

    As to code issues I am always looking to discuss in a respectful manner any issues that come into question.
    One is Arc-Fault devices and how they would relate to today’s installation.
    Another would be metal water pipe bonding as has already been discussed here.

  3. #3
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    As to a firestorm, Mr. JW, proud owner of a sticky, and starter of the 'be wise' thread, advocates a rather bizzare circuit under the SPDT switch thread for a wall heater that no electrician would dare place under his liability insurance policy, or in his home.

    His replys to mine are often disrespectful and insulting, and absurd under the rules of common sense, common practice, and safety.

    My replys, indeed are often cutting, ironic and of dark humor, but the intent is to inspire thinking outside the box rather than a blind reading of a set of laws that have inherent flaws.

    So the moderator here will have a hard river to row in.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 12-31-2010 at 12:24 AM.

  4. #4
    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    As to a firestorm, Mr. JW, proud owner of a sticky, and starter of the 'be wise' thread, advocates a rather bizzare circuit under the SPDT switch thread for a wall heater that no electrician would dare place under his liability insurance policy, or in his home.
    Why do you feel the need to include this content from another heated thread? What does this have to do with the original post here??? WHY do you feel the need to add even more erroneous statements like; "...that no electrician would dare place under his liability insurance policy, or in his home.", and "..., and absurd under the rules of common sense, common practice, and safety."


    All you are doing is perpetuating the negative stereotype that engineers have. Most of what you post is hearsay and highly opinionated statements, not fact.

  5. #5
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I think I delete more posts then anyone here.
    The licensed electricians here are have a tough time, trying to keep the information here safe and useful.
    Me personally not being licensed to do electrical, will have to rely on those that can and do.

    I sub my electrical out.

  6. #6
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    As to a firestorm, Mr. JW, proud owner of a sticky, and starter of the 'be wise' thread, advocates a rather bizzare circuit under the SPDT switch thread for a wall heater that no electrician would dare place under his liability insurance policy, or in his home.
    I beg to differ with this statement as I have made this installation on several occasions as well as have repaired such installations made by others. It is a very common installation in low income projects of years past.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    His replys to mine are often disrespectful and insulting, and absurd under the rules of common sense, common practice, and safety.
    Many complain of persons being disrespectful when they don’t set in agreement with each other. I have not intentionally been disrespectful to anyone except when they are so far off base that it would be an easy out or is down right dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    My replys, indeed are often cutting, ironic and of dark humor, but the intent is to inspire thinking outside the box rather than a blind reading of a set of laws that have inherent flaws.
    No matter if there is flaws in out system or not it is our system. As someone who feels they have a right to make this statement I simply say that if you don’t like our system please feel free to leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    So the moderator here will have a hard river to row in.
    Why would you make such a statement? What is its purpose? Was it intended as a threat of some kind?
    If you would like to continue a discussion about how hard a river as a moderator I will have to row in I would suggest it be as private messages.

  7. #7
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; I sub my electrical out.

    I don't usually, unless it is something I just don't want to do then I tell the electricians how to do it. (such as converting a water heater to 3 phase, or single phase with simultaneous operation). I have done troubleshooting for electricians since I was an apprentice, sometimes for some "off the wall" thing that requires more logic than testing.

  8. #8
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Ian to a Boston Tea Party!
    I'd love to visit Boston.

    The tea you dumped there has never been recovered. And that gets me.

    On electrical, I do most myself. Not heavy ups though.

    That's what I like about the NEC. It is a very clear instruction manual, although a long one.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 01-01-2011 at 02:18 PM.

  9. #9
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    quote; I sub my electrical out.

    I don't usually, unless it is something I just don't want to do then I tell the electricians how to do it. (such as converting a water heater to 3 phase, or single phase with simultaneous operation). I have done troubleshooting for electricians since I was an apprentice, sometimes for some "off the wall" thing that requires more logic than testing.
    How would you convert a standard water heater to 3 phase? Are elements made that fit the standard hole in a WH?

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