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Thread: Help with well system???

  1. #1

    Exclamation Help with well system???

    What system does this look like? The water comes from the right of the pressure tank. From the tank it goes in and out of some other tank (under the yellow funnel there is what looks to be a pressure valve). There is no bypass on top this tank.

    From that tank it goes to another tank with a controller head and bypass and then finally goes to the house. I can see where some sort of media goes in there but I am not sure. Where is the brine tank???

    Obviously I am new with wells and need help. I have read my eyes out and still can't figure out what system I have and how to service it!!!

    Help me please.
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  2. #2
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by croghanite View Post
    how to service it!!!
    Are you out of water or do you want to know about regular maintenance?

  3. #3

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    I have water. I need to know what the two tanks are and how to maintain them. What media to putin them? From what I was reading they could be Iron filters, uranium, softner, etc.

    If it's a softner then where is the brine tank?

  4. #4

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    BTW, the one tank has a cole & massy model IFP20 , serial # 23766-00278988, 9GPM control head on it.

  5. #5
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    You have an air injection system. The injector is the gray plastic part between the two white parts on the line coming in from the well to the pressure tank; the short blue steel tank.

    The first plastic blue tank is an off gas tank IF it has some sort of an outlet to allow air out of the black in/out head under the yellow funnel.

    The tank with the control valve on it, a Fleck 5600 modified for Cole & Massey (and 2 other brand names under the old Cuno Co), that is a turbidity or an AN (acid neutralizing) filter; with air injection it should be a backwashed multimedia turbidity filter (probably using some [sacrificial] AN media that can be added through the plug in the neck under the 5600), used to remove particulate material caused by oxidizing H2S gas or iron removal with the air (an oxidizer).

    The problems with that type system are blockage of flow by rust buildup inside the pipe from the air injector to the turbidity filter, and the rust building up in the in/out tank because there is no way to drain rust out of the tank; eventually the rust can foul the media in the filter. You don't want a bypass on that in/out tank. If there is no air relief valve on the in/out head, the tank could be a sand trap or upflow AN filter but I don't think so because there is no way to add AN media.

    You don't have a softener.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    You have an air injection system. The injector is the gray plastic part between the two white parts on the line coming in from the well to the pressure tank; the short blue steel tank.

    The first plastic blue tank is an off gas tank IF it has some sort of an outlet to allow air out of the black in/out head under the yellow funnel.

    The tank with the control valve on it, a Fleck 5600 modified for Cole & Massey (and 2 other brand names under the old Cuno Co), that is a turbidity or an AN (acid neutralizing) filter; with air injection it should be a backwashed multimedia turbidity filter (probably using some [sacrificial] AN media that can be added through the plug in the neck under the 5600), used to remove particulate material caused by oxidizing H2S gas or iron removal with the air (an oxidizer).

    The problems with that type system are blockage of flow by rust buildup inside the pipe from the air injector to the turbidity filter, and the rust building up in the in/out tank because there is no way to drain rust out of the tank; eventually the rust can foul the media in the filter. You don't want a bypass on that in/out tank. If there is no air relief valve on the in/out head, the tank could be a sand trap or upflow AN filter but I don't think so because there is no way to add AN media.

    You don't have a softener.
    WOW! That sir is great information!!! Very good, thank you! Under the yellow funnel there is a relief valve that says in and out on the side of it with arrows pinting left and right. There is a threaded outlet on the top of the relief valve as well (the threads are the size of maybe a pressure guage) This has had some air coming outof it before.

    Some follow up questions if I may.
    1) What & how much media should I be putting in the tank with the Fleck control valve on it?
    2) Is there a web page that gives a thourough matanance plan of this system?
    3) There has to be some kind of maintenance or media replacement needed for the In/Out tank. Is there?
    4) Will properly installing a CSV cause any problems with this system?

    BTW that air injector looks adjustable. I have detailed pics of almost every component on my system if you need any.

  7. #7

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    Oh BTW, if I make sure there is only plastic pipe before the tanks, will that eliminate the rust problem? I don't know if rust builds up in the bladder tank or from the pump itself...

  8. #8
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I don't like air injection so I haven't much experience with them but, you don't adjust anything without knowing what you're doing or you will mess it up for sure.

    If air is not vented from the top of the vent tank, your system will not work correctly. Air should be vented during or just after the pump runs.

    The size of the filter tank (I.E. model # 1054) is a 1.5 cuft filter, 0948 is a 1.0, 12xx is 2 cuft etc.. You will do good by finding some local that has experience with air injection to come out and service the system and have them teach you what to do.

    Rust builds up in plastic the same as in metal pipe.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #9

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    I live out in the country and called most plumbers. they don't know how to service it. I appreciate your help. I could do it if there were thourough info on the web about it.

    maybe I will start a new thread on this type of system and see if anyone else may know more.

  10. #10
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Most plumbers usually don't know water treatment, so call a water treatment dealer. Find them in the yellow pages under the heading Water Filtration/Softening/Conditioning etc..

    A new thread won't help and there are no manuals for troubleshooting or maintaining air injection or other type water treatment systems.

    IMO a CSV will cause too much air to be added to the water.
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 12-28-2010 at 07:47 PM.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #11
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Actually the air injector needs a certain flow rate to work properly. When the CSV starts reducing the flow to match the amount being used, or when it is filling the tank at 1 GPM, there is not enough flow to make the air injector work. So with a 40/60 pressure switch, we would set the CSV at about 55 PSI. In this way the flow is sufficient to make the air injector work until the pressure climbed above 55 PSI. Then no more air is injected as the last few gallons fills the tank. This allows enough air injected to make the system work properly with a CSV.

    Now, injecting air prior to a bladder tank is not a good idea. The air will fill the bladder then be blasted out when the tank empties. As Gary said, usually an air over water type tank is used so that an air volume control can relieve the excess air.

  12. #12

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    So my system is flaued.... I have air being injected before the bladder and rust is filling the holes in the IN/OUT tank with no way to clean it. Oh and I have not a clue as to what media to put in the filter tank.

    At least I can add a CSV ...
    Last edited by croghanite; 12-29-2010 at 06:24 AM.

  13. #13
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    There are a number of different types of media used in turbidity filters.

    Which one used is dependent on the chemistry of YOUR water. That is why there are no manuals to tell you which one to use; water treatment dealers 'know' which ones work (best) in your area. That's due to the complexity of water chemistry from one well to another in one area or another. Not to mention the peak demand gpm variable from one house to another which dictates the size of the filter.

    You have an off gas (vent) tank, as all oxidizing (chlorine, air, ozone, hydrogen peroxide etc.) filter systems should have and with air injection (uses a venturi as opposed to an air pump system) as you have, you don't want air added to the water stream before any type pressure tank, but it is done every day somewhere, out of ignorance; especially with a bladder type pressure tank.

    A CSV will cause air injection while the pump runs until as Valveman says, the flow is too small for the venturi to add any. That will end up giving you too much air for your probably Honeywell/Baukmann (sic) float controlled vent valve (you have a smallish vent tank) and thereby too much DO (dissolved oxygen) in the water IMO and that can cause water quality and other problems and IMO you won't like that and there's nothing you can do but remove the CSV.

    One or more of the types of media used in your type filter may require a higher than normal DO content but most don't.

    On the other hand, dependent on the type of media in your filter, if you don't get enough air, the filter will not work for anything other than 'sediment' filtration (you don't use any air system for sediment removal). In other words it could not remove iron, H2S gas or manganese.

    You need a water analysis on your raw (untreated) water (before any air is injected), then you can choose which media to use in the filter; or the only media that you can use IIRC, is birm. But birm can not be used if there is any H2S gas present.

    You can clean your vent tank by removing the head and dumping/removing any sediment in the bottom etc.. Use two sch 40 PVC unions.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  14. #14

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    I finally found a fella that will come out to service my system. He's 45 minutes away and charges 120 per hour. Coming out tomorrow to test my water and give me an estimate.

    He said my tank will probably have to be cleaned out and repacked every year and the rough estimate is 300 - 350 for a repacking job- labor included.

  15. #15
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    There is no reason for annual replacement of any media used for H2S, iron or manganese removal; which is what air injection is used for.

    So be careful as to what media he uses, carbon other than Centaur should not be used, and only Centaur if you have H2S present. Centaur will last many years. So will any acid neutralizing mineral. And when needed, you can DIY and save his overpriced charge.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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