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Thread: DiY or No? Please help me decide. 350' 2hp replacement

  1. #16
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    Im not gonna say u cant do it, but just know its not even close to changing oil or a tire. Threaded sch. 80 doesn't like to bend much coming out or going into a hole. Need plenty of arc, and that stuff gets a mind of its own easily, and remember the arc is full of water too, so keep a good handle on it. Very easy to mess it up, at the collars especially. Be very careful. I would have one person designated to nothing but the wire.. keep tension on it and keep a firm grip. If something pops, the guy holding the wire might hold it all up and save u thousands.
    Last edited by justwater; 11-27-2010 at 06:01 PM.

  2. #17
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatguy View Post
    At 8.3 pounds per gallon 300# is 36 gallons. And 7.48 gals per cubic foot.

    That's why I used a spreadsheet - so each step could be checked.

    Sumpin's wrong somewhere. . .?
    I hate doing math, but here goes-

    Volume of a cylinder = Pi (3.14159) X Radius of cylinder^2 X Length of cylinder

    Radius of 1.25" pipe = .625"
    .625^2= .390625

    Length of cylinder= 350' x 12"= 4200"

    Vol = 3.14159 X .390625 X 4200= 5154 cu inches

    1728 cu inches = 1 cu foot

    5154 / 1728 = 2.98 cu feet

    1 cu foot of water = 62.42 lbs

    2.98 X 62.42=

    186 lbs of water in 350' of 1.25" pipe.

  3. #18
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Natopotato. I just love to hear guys go on about something they have never used and have no experience with, like PE pipe. And their anti DIYer comments and how far they'll go to try to convince those that want to do it themselves not to try it.

    PE pipe has been used on the east coast for 40 yrs. In rock bore wells and over 500' deep to the pump. With cable guards. Without problems IF the ham handed guy follows instructions.

    You run one piece, no couplers underground except at the pitless if you have one. You don't overheat it or over tighten the clamps. Or lay it on sharp rocks or back fill sharp rocks on it. You double oppose clamp it (clamp screws 180* opposite each other).

    No torque arrestor or safety rope. Tape the cable to it every 10' between cable guards every 20-25' keeping the cable taunt, no slack spots. It's a rare well that can damage cable and not the pipe, or the pipe and not the cable, but that happens very rarely after many years of use.

    It is commonalty sold by pump and plumber supply houses in 100, 300 and 500 foot rolls. Or you can get it online.

    You could pull your sch 80 and sell it for like $1.25/ft using 160 or 200 psi rated PE to put the pump back in the well.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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  4. #19
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    pipe length x pipe area is sq. in. x .34 equals the weight of the water. Pipe is .43 #/ft.

    This gives the water at 122# and the pipe at 107, but I cannot imagine trying to pull 250' of rigid sch.40 pipe in one piece. IT would decide WHEN to start bending and how much, but would snap long before the pump was out of the well.

  5. #20
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Add about 50# for the pump and another 50# for the wire, for a total of about 320#. Then you can deduct quite a bit for buoyancy. You would be surprised how much sch 80 pvc can bend without breaking. I have done this many times and never broke the pipe. It is really harder to drag 350' across the ground than to pull it out of the well. Just make sure you have plenty of help, as you don't want to get it half way out and run out of steam.

  6. #21
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    I dunno Cary. I have a 1-HP set at 200' here on sch 80 PVC and set it with the Smeal. I tried lifting it by hand to see if I could and it felt very heavy to me. Not something I would want to deal with more than 3-4 feet.

    What is your preference? Sch 80 PVC, Poly Pipe, or galvanized pipe?

  7. #22
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    Too bad there wasn't one of these in every rental store-


  8. #23
    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
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    I found two errors, so now I get 267 # and 32 gallons. It's a good thing I don't have a real job - I'd fire myself.

  9. #24
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    OK, here's what I came up with using 1.25 as the ID of the pipe. I don't have the chart in front of me but I have some charts somewhere. Just curious how we all came to different conclusions?


    pipe diameter 1.250 inches
    pipe area 1.227 sq inches
    area per foot 14.719 cu inches/foot
    gallons per foot 0.064 gallons per foot
    tot gallons 22.301 gallons
    tot weight 185.099 lbs

    Cacher looks like we agree.
    Last edited by Texas Wellman; 11-28-2010 at 09:39 AM. Reason: Used wrong ID in original post

  10. #25
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    I just looked and see that ID of 1.25 pipe is 1.38" according to this source: http://www.woihouston.com/downloads/...hedules_02.pdf

    New Numbers work out to 225 lbs. So add in 50# for the pump and 50 for the wire and you're above 300#. Add in the buoancy and you're back down again until you get out of the water. Still a might bit heavy.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Texas Wellman; 11-28-2010 at 09:41 AM.

  11. #26
    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
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    Here's my corrected spreadsheet

    1.38 enter pipe ID dia in inches
    1.50 calcd pipe area in sq. in
    350 enter pipe length in feet
    3.64 calc pipe volume in cu ft
    27.19 calc water volume in gallons
    226 calcd water weight in pounds

    If you also know the OD we can figure the pipe weight using the PVC density, 1.38 to 1.41 g/cm3, with some numbers from these guys
    http://www.onlineconversion.com/
    Last edited by Thatguy; 11-28-2010 at 09:53 AM.

  12. #27
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Oh it is going to be heavy and slick! But if you want it bad enough, you can do anything you set your mind to. I wouldn't try 350' unless I had at least 4 strong guys to do it. High static water level makes it much lighter but, also makes it slick all the way out. Low static makes it more heavy but, not as slick. I have set a lot of pumps on sch 80 with brass or galv couplings. I always used the rig when I could. Sometimes you just can't get a rig in there, so you have to do it by hand. Also set short set subs on poly. I don't like poly on deep wells because you can't work it with a pulling rig. I have seen the "pullapumps" and "upsydazy" in action but have never tried one. I am all for anything that makes it safer. At the end of the day you are going to need your fingers, toes, arms, legs, etc.

  13. #28
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Perhaps if you sucked the water out of the drop line with a vac or blew it out with an air compressor it would rise up out of the well [almost] on its own.....

    That guy, get out your math book.

  14. #29
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    It's heavy. I would never pull 300+' by hand at once, that's insanity. U better find a very tough dude for that kind of pulling, and hope he has a twin.

    If this were me and I didn't have any of the equipment i have, and was planning on doing this by hand... If u couldnt build a 20' tripod, I would pull it up by hand 1 joint at the time. Use a piece of steel plate with a notch that the pipe will fit in but the collars won't.. A makeshift pipe "dog".. So u can dog it off at the well head every time u pull up a joint, then use 2 wrenches (one to hold the collar and one to spin the pipe out of the collar (while it's dogged off at the well head of course). Probably need 3 guys, 2 to pull it up and dog it off, and another on a ladder or in back of truck keeping the pipe from falling over until u twist it out (kid could do this, as that kid has been me before). This would be your safest bet, gives u a break and it won't be as hectic. when u pull up that first joint, u'll be very happy u didn't try to pull another 330' without taking a break. I can think of very few people that have the power and stamina to nonstop pull 350' of filled sch. 80 with wire and a pump on the end. I am not one of them.. and I'm young and in great shape. just my .02 ..U can try it however u please.

  15. #30
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Really, if the water level is high, and you pull slow and steady, they come up pretty easy. bouyant- floating. Making that first turn of pipe back to the ground could be interesting.

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