220v to 110v

Users who are viewing this thread

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
And Marne Rock, I would stop being a slave to obtuse code written by engineers that never were in the field.
This goes to prove my statement
One of the funniest things I have ever seen or read was someone with little or no knowledge of something standing on a podium shouting out wrong information.
for it is not engineers that write the NEC but instead it is people just like you and me that write the NEC. In the back of ever NEC book is a proposal that even you can fill out in order to have some section of the NEC changed. Over the years I have written many that was accepted into the next code cycle

Got a pile of breakers and older boxes with bizzare combinations of metals. Rusted, corroded in wires and screws. But hey! Your odd reading of that ridiculous piece of nonsensical code should be followed blindly. I would opt for the safe side, and I wonder how no corrode, anti seize paste can be a safety issue.
Are you asking two questions here or are you making a statement and asking one question?
Any type of compound used on wires and terminals MUST be approved for the application. Could you see someone using Teflon anti- seize on an electrical installation. The Teflon would act as an insulator and impede the flow of current. All types of “anti-seize†is forbidden from use on electrical connections of any kind as the anti-seize is not a conductor of electrical current.
What do the dopes at NEC have to say about ground rod connectors? Some are aluminum, on rebar, with steel screws. Some are plated brass with steel fittings of the lowest quality. Some are aluminum on a galvanized rod. Out in the rain. Got physics? Or better, got an NEC enforcement agency watching every manufacturer from China to India to Detroit for their metallic choices? They only respond after someone gets toasted, if then.
If you had one ounce of knowledge of electrical you would know that aluminum is not used in direct contact with earth for any reason. You would also know what a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory was and what their job in the electrical trade was. Ever hear lf such laboratories such as UL, Met ect….?

Test the resistance after 10 years on the ones without anti seize or no corrode paste. That is IF you can get a connection through the rusted rotten clamp thats ready to fall apart. A little paste might save a life. If NEC had a clue you would paste it, ball it with putty [not play dough] and shrink tube it. THATS safety at work.
Again you show your ignorance with the statement of saving a live with a rusted ground connection. The earth plays no role in your safety when it comes to electrical current flow. A careful read of 250.4 will explain the four reasons we connect to earth and clearing a fault is not one of them.

The telephone company NEC reading imbecile installed a steel ground clamp on my 1" copper main water line, which is not in the earth anyway. Pipe is almost rotted through, and the clamp too. Bet he had a code book in the car, next to his bud light.
YOUR COPPER IS ROTTED AWAY?????? Damn if you ain’t good. You have successfully done something that can’t be done. If the telephone technician bonded to your copper water pipe then the electrical system is required to be bonded to you copper pipe also so therefore the telephone technician did a good job.
CAUTION---- If you copper water pipes have rotted away you need to hire a plumber before you start having water leaks.

"Now I might be one of those code nuts but I know that once the NEC is adopted it becomes law. "
Germany once adopted a law …Try to buy a gun in England or most of Europe…North Korea has law…But thats the LAW, laws must be followed.
Well I just don’t understand what all these laws have to do with the building codes of America but you are correct that the law is the law and must be adhered to no matter where you are in this world.
And by the way, I apologise for asking anyone to apologise. I notice when I ask my wife that, dishes usually start flying no matter how wrong she might be.
And once again you prove that you have a lot to learn. Any man who has been “happily†married for any amount of time knows that a woman is ALWAYS right and us poor old lonely men are just plain wrong. Men should always apologize to women. Notice the spelling of a-p-o-l-o-g-i-z-e. Do you see there is no “s†in the word. Now go hug your wife and apologize to her and tell her how unworthy you are to have someone so smart looking after you, you will find a more tranquil life after doing this.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
So you CONFIRM that you would kiss Panyong-dummm-dangs photo and march naked to the gas chamber. You should have lived in Eastern Europe for a decade or two before 1997. They elevated robots to a high status.

And the NEC [numb-nuts expousing crap] allows you to write in their book? That explains much about their confusion.

Why not write to them and explain that rusted, useless, non-functioning connections to ground rods are to be accepted. Be sure to use your spell checker.

And I'll make an exception for you: Still waiting for your a-p-p-o-l-y-g-e-e. Write it when kneeling please.

Anti sieze and anti corrode elements are found combined in electricians paste. Here is a little reading for you, since you apparantly do not understand c-o-r-r-o-c-e-a-n:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

And you want me to bond my panel to a corroded zinc clamp on the telephone companies ground wire, all connectd to my ungrounded copper pipe? Better cuddle up with your NEC book.

And get yourself some deep understanding of this stuff:

http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html

Might save a life and a fire if electricians took the time to use it.

[Good ones already do that]
 
Last edited:

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
Maybe if you would take the time to read some to this propaganda YOU would better understand the physics behind the finding of facts.
First let’s take a look at your rotted copper pipe and the treason web page you posted. Wait a minute that was the other Wiki that committed treason. In order for galvanic reaction to take place there would need to be certain metals in direct contact with each other such as copper and zinc with an electrical current being imposed on them. Of course this galvanic reaction can take place with an electrolyte in which case we would have a battery.

This cock and bull story of installing a brass clamp to a copper pipe causing some sort of galvanic reaction is at the very least the funniest thing I have ever heard. If someone does believe this contact is going to somehow cause problems had better remove the mixing valve in their shower immediately.
With the information you posted from that wiki page I am afraid to take a shower anymore. From now on I will go to the river to bathe because I might get electrocuted in the shower because my mixing valve is brass and it has copper sweated to it.
In all of my years I have never seen a zinc clamp used in the electrical trade but then again I have not been to all them countries you know the laws of either.
As to the model railroad stuff you want to put on the conductors again I point out 110.14 of the NEC which clearly states that the use of this junk must be called for by both the wire manufacturer and the terminal manufacturer before it can be used. In the 42 years that I have been doing electrical work I can’t remember a time it was required.

Of course in all my years of doing electrical work I haven’t gotten as much experience in the use and installation of electrical components as someone who has been doing plumbing would have gotten especially those who have gotten all their experience via the internet.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
3m and Ideal sell wire nuts with the goop already in them for outside work. Come back after 10 years and the copper is like new. Do the connection without and you are using dikes to cut the nut off.

At 60 or 100 bucks an hour, I'd say the homeowner deserves it.

If its a pot-metal box, if you dont use it on the cover plate screws, the chisel is the only method of removal after 1 year

Copper and brass clamps and connections are fine, but there ARE many flavors of ground clamp connectors, without names and country of origin. I see many zinc/aluminum, and brass PLATED steel clamps. Without a good no-corrode paste they are junk after a few years.

Plumbers tape for contact to copper, you may notice is copper plated or plastic. Its not for show.
 
Last edited:

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
3m and Ideal sell wire nuts with the goop already in them for outside work. Come back after 10 years and the copper is like new.
this is neither anti-ox or anti-seize but instead it is for the protection against water invasion.

Do the connection without and you are using dikes to cut the nut off.
this is a false statement as I have never had to cut the wire nut off in all the years I have been in the field

At 60 or 100 bucks an hour, I'd say the homeowner deserves it.
It does my heart good to finally find out why plumbers make so much money. It is because of what they charge per hour

If its a pot-metal box, if you dont use it on the cover plate screws, the chisel is the only method of removal after 1 year
Never in over forty years had this problem. Is this something you are finding on a daily basis?

Copper and brass clamps and connections are fine, but there ARE many flavors of ground clamp connectors, without names and country of origin. I see many zinc/aluminum, and brass PLATED steel clamps. Without a good no-corrode paste they are junk after a few years.
Now you understand why the NEC requires electrical equipment to be listed and approved for the installation. Of course when we start having building engineers doing field work it is no wonder that we have the inclusion of all this unlisted and unapproved stuff being installed.
After all it was YOU who said that the engineers that has little or no common sense.

Plumbers tape for contact to copper, you may notice is copper plated or plastic. Its not for show.
Neither is it for electrical installations.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
Regarding your experience with a steel screw in a cast zinc-aluminum box, and wire nuts outdoors, you must do your work in Kuwait or the Sahara, and commute to humid NC. Actually steel screws in aluminum- zinc boxes would corrode even there from dew.

An old tool designer/ mentor of mine taught me to use EAR WAX on bolts and nuts when you are in a bind and want the connection to never corrode. Never use Q-tips to clean your ears. Use a small flat screwdriver or tree branch and put it into your wire nuts. [not OSHA approved]

But ground clamps have no UL tag or NEC oversight, and so all kind of garbage comes in from India and china for the sake of a profit to the peddler.

Copper corrodes quite nicely if you keep it damp and wind it up in a steel spring. Do a search for statue of liberty repairs, its quite interesting. Copper and steel makes a good battery, and the french Laquered or varnished the steel frame, but wherever it was too thin, everything turned to dust.

Some old electrical books says electricians used Mobil 29 grease on connections for corrosion protection before anyone made a specific product.

Even lard or goose grease in a outdoor wire nut would be better than nothing. You can run with that thought! I'll send it to the NEC.
 
Last edited:

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
Regarding your experience with a steel screw in a cast zinc-aluminum box, and wire nuts outdoors, you must do your work in Kuwait or the Sahara, and commute to humid NC. Actually steel screws in aluminum- zinc boxes would corrode even there from dew.

An old tool designer/ mentor of mine taught me to use EAR WAX on bolts and nuts when you are in a bind and want the connection to never corrode. Never use Q-tips to clean your ears. Use a small flat screwdriver or tree branch and put it into your wire nuts. [not OSHA approved]

But ground clamps have no UL tag or NEC oversight, and so all kind of garbage comes in from India and china for the sake of a profit to the peddler.

Copper corrodes quite nicely if you keep it damp and wind it up in a steel spring. Do a search for statue of liberty repairs, its quite interesting. Copper and steel makes a good battery, and the french Laquered or varnished the steel frame, but wherever it was too thin, everything turned to dust.

Some old electrical books says electricians used Mobil 29 grease on connections for corrosion protection before anyone made a specific product.

Even lard or goose grease in a outdoor wire nut would be better than nothing. You can run with that thought! I'll send it to the NEC.





But ground clamps have no UL tag or NEC oversight, and so all kind of garbage comes in from India and china for the sake of a profit to the peddler.
Well then explain what this means. I found it in 250.64(F) of the NEC
Connections shall be made by a listed connector or by the exothermic welding process.
I also wonder just what UL Standard 467 is all about, could it be grounding equipment?


Even lard or goose grease in a outdoor wire nut would be better than nothing. You can run with that thought! I'll send it to the NEC.
Be sure to do just that. I will be looking for it in the ROPs

The one thing that I do know for sure is that you have no clue of what you are talking about
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
Steel in zinc aluminum outside MUST corrode unless greased or pasted. Fact of physics.

Again, if yours do not corrode you must be doing your work in Kuwait.

Thats a silcone grease in the wire nuts and it prevents corrosion from moisture.

The old street wise handymen used ear wax in a pinch for a lubricant on bolts and nuts and wood screws before we had battery drills and phillips heads. Probably has better anti corrosion qualities than silicone and its always in your "tool Box"

Heres something if you have clean ears:

http://stormgrounding.electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/no-ox-id.html

And a ground clamp that will not fail:

http://store.electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/gvn-jrd-clamp.html

Better than exothermic welding, for the average guy.
 
Last edited:

Jetlag

New Member
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Ga.
Seen MANY panels in closets. Never saw a fire. They get a lot less water vapor than the feeder panel outside on the pole or wall. Those code panels exposed in a hall usually get a picture hung over them so they cant be located anyway.

By the way, you already have at least one 120v circuit by using that big cable and one of the hot wires. Get rid of the 50 amp breaker and feed one wire with a 20 amp breaker at the main panel. Put a J box in the bath and hook up your 12g romex to that one wire and the ground and neutral.

You also have the second 120v circuit by duplicating that with another 20 amp breaker at the panel and sharing the neutral, but the guys here will probably scream.

PS: why [2] 120 v circuits for a bathtub air blower? You would also need GFCI breakers unless the tub has its own.

Wont scream on that one but he must use a 240 volt 20 amp double breaker in the panel to feed the shared neutral multiwire branch circuit . Even though he will be connecting 2 - 120 v circuits . Set a j box in the closet to tie in the 2 #12 cables to hot tub cable , But you must leave the j box cover so it is accessable . There are exceptions to the panel in a closet , it is allowed in the cloths closet in a mobile home , it is also allowed in a closet if you can prove it is not for cloths or combustible items , but you must have proper clearance, 30 " wide and 36 " in front .
 
Last edited:
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks