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Thread: 220v to 110v

  1. #31
    DIY Junior Member StatManLV's Avatar
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    OK, just so I have this right. It is ok to split the circuit at the main panel and use a shared common for the two new circuits, correct?

  2. #32
    Electrical Contractor sbrn33's Avatar
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    Yes, make sure there is a ground wire and protect it with the right size breaker. Install a junction box somewhere accessible and run new 12-2 to where you need your new circuits. Protect with a 2 pole 20 amp breaker.

  3. #33
    DIY Junior Member StatManLV's Avatar
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    OK, thanks!!

  4. #34
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I think Ballvalve installs pumps, I changed the title on his listing to that.
    Terry

  5. #35
    Electrical Contractor jbfan74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbrn33 View Post
    Yes, make sure there is a ground wire and protect it with the right size breaker. Install a junction box somewhere accessible and run new 12-2 to where you need your new circuits. Protect with a 2 pole 20 amp breaker.
    I think somewhere the OP listed the tub as needing 15 amps max, so if that is the case, you can only use a 2 pole 15 amp breaker.
    Yes I am A Pirate-Jimmy Buffett

  6. #36
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Gee thanks Terry, but just call me a general engineering contractor. That will cover all of my other licenses.

    Why would you agree with Sbrnsomething when my advice matched his exactly? And several other posters backed it up?

    SBrn looks like he skipped reading classes in grade school, and rock of the barne just likes to argue, after he agreed with me in a previous post.

    You might notice that it was me that told the guy he ALREADY had 2 circuits in his toilet, while the others didnt have a clue.

    Clip a lead in a stranded 6 or 8 g wire? BFD argumentive robot boys.

    It is now on a 15 amp breaker - duh. And dont reply back its a code issue. They are the biggest dopes of all.

    Lets hear you master electricians explain the safety problem in that.

    C'mon, make something up.

    Want to make it safe IN the panel? Do a J- box outside the panel, make your connection to the big wire there, and bring in 14 gauge wire to the 15 amp breakers. Now handyman Billy Bob cannot re-hook the 50 amp breaker to the big wires and barbque the guy in his tub.

    And about "outdoor" panels. Ever see a "outdoor" breaker? Ever see a different bus bar in the outside panel? No

    OUtdoor panels are "rainproof" by BOX DESIGN - dont rain in my bath closet, I dont know about yours.

    Funny how all you great electricians out there never take the time to put no-corrode paste on wire connections in outdoor boxes, which is a REAL safety issue. You can have a copper wire on an aluminum lug with a steel screw. Take any physics classes? Now there is something to worry about, not a clipped lead out of 4 or 5.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 11-29-2010 at 11:39 AM. Reason: eye for eye

  7. #37
    Electrical Contractor sbrn33's Avatar
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    You should stop talking as the hole you are digging is getting deeper and deeper.

  8. #38
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    I think a lot of "electricians" deserve to be in that hole.

  9. #39
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    Funny how all you great electricians out there never take the time to put no-corrode paste on wire connections in outdoor boxes, which is a REAL safety issue. You can have a copper wire on an aluminum lug with a steel screw. Take any physics classes? Now there is something to worry about, not a clipped lead out of 4 or 5.
    One of the funniest things I have ever seen or read was someone with little or no knowledge of something standing on a podium shouting out wrong information.

    Check out some of the following;

    110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
    (B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
    This section of the NEC clearly states that any piece of electrical equipment MUST be installed according to any instructions included in the listing and labeling of the piece of equipment.
    Many manufacturers of terminals will instruct the installer to not use any type of inhibitors. Those who recommend the use of inhibitors include the inhibitor in the terminal.

    110.14 Electrical Connections.
    Because of different characteristics of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs shall be identified for the material of the conductor and shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum), unless the device is identified for the purpose and conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect the conductors, installation, or equipment.
    As one can easily see no dissimilar metals can be used together unless the fitting is approved for the metals.
    Also the use of inhibitors or antioxidant compounds are forbidden unless suitable for the installation and none of these are suitable unless the manufacturer calls for them.

    Now if this isn’t enough the use of the antioxidant must be used according to the recommendations of the manufacturer and I haven’t seen the proper use of the antioxidant in more than twenty years. It also seems to be the ones calling or claiming that it should be used for every installation that has no clue on the proper use of the antioxidant.

    Now I might be one of those code nuts but I know that once the NEC is adopted it becomes law.

  10. #40
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=sbrn33;279510]Yes, make sure there is a ground wire and protect it with the right size breaker. Install a junction box somewhere accessible and run new 12-2 to where you need your new circuits. Protect with a 2 pole 20 amp breaker.[/QUOTE]

    So that proves my original point that you didnt read the entire thread.

    And Marne Rock, I would stop being a slave to obtuse code written by engineers that never were in the field.

    Got a pile of breakers and older boxes with bizzare combinations of metals. Rusted, corroded in wires and screws. But hey! Your odd reading of that ridiculous piece of nonsensical code should be followed blindly. I would opt for the safe side, and I wonder how no corrode, anti seize paste can be a safety issue.

    What do the dopes at NEC have to say about ground rod connectors? Some are aluminum, on rebar, with steel screws. Some are plated brass with steel fittings of the lowest quality. Some are aluminum on a galvanized rod. Out in the rain. Got physics? Or better, got an NEC enforcement agency watching every manufacturer from China to India to Detroit for their metallic choices? They only respond after someone gets toasted, if then.

    Test the resistance after 10 years on the ones without anti seize or no corrode paste. That is IF you can get a connection through the rusted rotten clamp thats ready to fall apart. A little paste might save a life. If NEC had a clue you would paste it, ball it with putty [not play dough] and shrink tube it. THATS safety at work.

    The telephone company NEC reading imbecile installed a steel ground clamp on my 1" copper main water line, which is not in the earth anyway. Pipe is almost rotted through, and the clamp too. Bet he had a code book in the car, next to his bud light.

    "Now I might be one of those code nuts but I know that once the NEC is adopted it becomes law. "

    Germany once adopted a law that told the Jews to assemble and starve and then march to the gas.

    Try to buy a gun in England or most of Europe. Ready for 2 years of paperwork?

    North Korea has laws saying you must venerate the faultless leader and kiss his photo each morning.

    But thats the LAW, laws must be followed.

    And by the way, I apologise for asking anyone to apologise. I notice when I ask my wife that, dishes usually start flying no matter how wrong she might be.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 12-01-2010 at 05:29 AM.

  11. #41
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    And Marne Rock, I would stop being a slave to obtuse code written by engineers that never were in the field.
    This goes to prove my statement
    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    One of the funniest things I have ever seen or read was someone with little or no knowledge of something standing on a podium shouting out wrong information.
    for it is not engineers that write the NEC but instead it is people just like you and me that write the NEC. In the back of ever NEC book is a proposal that even you can fill out in order to have some section of the NEC changed. Over the years I have written many that was accepted into the next code cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    Got a pile of breakers and older boxes with bizzare combinations of metals. Rusted, corroded in wires and screws. But hey! Your odd reading of that ridiculous piece of nonsensical code should be followed blindly. I would opt for the safe side, and I wonder how no corrode, anti seize paste can be a safety issue.
    Are you asking two questions here or are you making a statement and asking one question?
    Any type of compound used on wires and terminals MUST be approved for the application. Could you see someone using Teflon anti- seize on an electrical installation. The Teflon would act as an insulator and impede the flow of current. All types of “anti-seize” is forbidden from use on electrical connections of any kind as the anti-seize is not a conductor of electrical current.
    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    What do the dopes at NEC have to say about ground rod connectors? Some are aluminum, on rebar, with steel screws. Some are plated brass with steel fittings of the lowest quality. Some are aluminum on a galvanized rod. Out in the rain. Got physics? Or better, got an NEC enforcement agency watching every manufacturer from China to India to Detroit for their metallic choices? They only respond after someone gets toasted, if then.
    If you had one ounce of knowledge of electrical you would know that aluminum is not used in direct contact with earth for any reason. You would also know what a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory was and what their job in the electrical trade was. Ever hear lf such laboratories such as UL, Met ect….?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    Test the resistance after 10 years on the ones without anti seize or no corrode paste. That is IF you can get a connection through the rusted rotten clamp thats ready to fall apart. A little paste might save a life. If NEC had a clue you would paste it, ball it with putty [not play dough] and shrink tube it. THATS safety at work.
    Again you show your ignorance with the statement of saving a live with a rusted ground connection. The earth plays no role in your safety when it comes to electrical current flow. A careful read of 250.4 will explain the four reasons we connect to earth and clearing a fault is not one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    The telephone company NEC reading imbecile installed a steel ground clamp on my 1" copper main water line, which is not in the earth anyway. Pipe is almost rotted through, and the clamp too. Bet he had a code book in the car, next to his bud light.
    YOUR COPPER IS ROTTED AWAY?????? Damn if you ain’t good. You have successfully done something that can’t be done. If the telephone technician bonded to your copper water pipe then the electrical system is required to be bonded to you copper pipe also so therefore the telephone technician did a good job.
    CAUTION---- If you copper water pipes have rotted away you need to hire a plumber before you start having water leaks.

    "Now I might be one of those code nuts but I know that once the NEC is adopted it becomes law. "
    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    Germany once adopted a law …Try to buy a gun in England or most of Europe…North Korea has law…But thats the LAW, laws must be followed.
    Well I just don’t understand what all these laws have to do with the building codes of America but you are correct that the law is the law and must be adhered to no matter where you are in this world.
    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    And by the way, I apologise for asking anyone to apologise. I notice when I ask my wife that, dishes usually start flying no matter how wrong she might be.
    And once again you prove that you have a lot to learn. Any man who has been “happily” married for any amount of time knows that a woman is ALWAYS right and us poor old lonely men are just plain wrong. Men should always apologize to women. Notice the spelling of a-p-o-l-o-g-i-z-e. Do you see there is no “s” in the word. Now go hug your wife and apologize to her and tell her how unworthy you are to have someone so smart looking after you, you will find a more tranquil life after doing this.

  12. #42
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    So you CONFIRM that you would kiss Panyong-dummm-dangs photo and march naked to the gas chamber. You should have lived in Eastern Europe for a decade or two before 1997. They elevated robots to a high status.

    And the NEC [numb-nuts expousing crap] allows you to write in their book? That explains much about their confusion.

    Why not write to them and explain that rusted, useless, non-functioning connections to ground rods are to be accepted. Be sure to use your spell checker.

    And I'll make an exception for you: Still waiting for your a-p-p-o-l-y-g-e-e. Write it when kneeling please.

    Anti sieze and anti corrode elements are found combined in electricians paste. Here is a little reading for you, since you apparantly do not understand c-o-r-r-o-c-e-a-n:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

    And you want me to bond my panel to a corroded zinc clamp on the telephone companies ground wire, all connectd to my ungrounded copper pipe? Better cuddle up with your NEC book.

    And get yourself some deep understanding of this stuff:

    http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html

    Might save a life and a fire if electricians took the time to use it.

    [Good ones already do that]
    Last edited by ballvalve; 12-01-2010 at 10:09 AM.

  13. #43
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Maybe if you would take the time to read some to this propaganda YOU would better understand the physics behind the finding of facts.
    First let’s take a look at your rotted copper pipe and the treason web page you posted. Wait a minute that was the other Wiki that committed treason. In order for galvanic reaction to take place there would need to be certain metals in direct contact with each other such as copper and zinc with an electrical current being imposed on them. Of course this galvanic reaction can take place with an electrolyte in which case we would have a battery.

    This cock and bull story of installing a brass clamp to a copper pipe causing some sort of galvanic reaction is at the very least the funniest thing I have ever heard. If someone does believe this contact is going to somehow cause problems had better remove the mixing valve in their shower immediately.
    With the information you posted from that wiki page I am afraid to take a shower anymore. From now on I will go to the river to bathe because I might get electrocuted in the shower because my mixing valve is brass and it has copper sweated to it.
    In all of my years I have never seen a zinc clamp used in the electrical trade but then again I have not been to all them countries you know the laws of either.
    As to the model railroad stuff you want to put on the conductors again I point out 110.14 of the NEC which clearly states that the use of this junk must be called for by both the wire manufacturer and the terminal manufacturer before it can be used. In the 42 years that I have been doing electrical work I can’t remember a time it was required.

    Of course in all my years of doing electrical work I haven’t gotten as much experience in the use and installation of electrical components as someone who has been doing plumbing would have gotten especially those who have gotten all their experience via the internet.

  14. #44
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    3m and Ideal sell wire nuts with the goop already in them for outside work. Come back after 10 years and the copper is like new. Do the connection without and you are using dikes to cut the nut off.

    At 60 or 100 bucks an hour, I'd say the homeowner deserves it.

    If its a pot-metal box, if you dont use it on the cover plate screws, the chisel is the only method of removal after 1 year

    Copper and brass clamps and connections are fine, but there ARE many flavors of ground clamp connectors, without names and country of origin. I see many zinc/aluminum, and brass PLATED steel clamps. Without a good no-corrode paste they are junk after a few years.

    Plumbers tape for contact to copper, you may notice is copper plated or plastic. Its not for show.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 12-01-2010 at 02:06 PM.

  15. #45
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    3m and Ideal sell wire nuts with the goop already in them for outside work. Come back after 10 years and the copper is like new.
    this is neither anti-ox or anti-seize but instead it is for the protection against water invasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    Do the connection without and you are using dikes to cut the nut off.
    this is a false statement as I have never had to cut the wire nut off in all the years I have been in the field

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    At 60 or 100 bucks an hour, I'd say the homeowner deserves it.
    It does my heart good to finally find out why plumbers make so much money. It is because of what they charge per hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    If its a pot-metal box, if you dont use it on the cover plate screws, the chisel is the only method of removal after 1 year
    Never in over forty years had this problem. Is this something you are finding on a daily basis?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    Copper and brass clamps and connections are fine, but there ARE many flavors of ground clamp connectors, without names and country of origin. I see many zinc/aluminum, and brass PLATED steel clamps. Without a good no-corrode paste they are junk after a few years.
    Now you understand why the NEC requires electrical equipment to be listed and approved for the installation. Of course when we start having building engineers doing field work it is no wonder that we have the inclusion of all this unlisted and unapproved stuff being installed.
    After all it was YOU who said that the engineers that has little or no common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    Plumbers tape for contact to copper, you may notice is copper plated or plastic. Its not for show.
    Neither is it for electrical installations.

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