Happy Thanksgiving

[Cookie]

I love the Muppets! I had to sign what they were saying years ago to a bunch of kids, and believe me, that was the hardest thing to do, cause I was laughing.

[Gary Slusser]

Gary, this is probably one holiday that isn't about politics. Thankfully, their is one.

Ah but... the political lesson learned by the Pilgrams but not spoken about in history books helped to build America. It was the failure of their communal living (communism) for their first three years while more of them died of starvation than the half of them that died in their first year.

After 3 years of growing their food on a communal basis, with some of them choosing not to work to grow food, the colony was failing. Then the leaders allowed those that wanted to work to keep more of what they grew than those that didn't work, and that saved the colony. Prior to that, those people didn't like working hard to give those that didn't want to work the same volume of food that they were given. Once they were allowed to keep more of what they grew, the colony prospered.

To me that makes this holiday as important politically as the 4th of July.

Recently the US has turned from capitalism to State Capitalism, formerly known as national socialism which came out of communism. All of Europe is going broke due to socialism and severely cutting their 'free' services (government spending) while becoming very fiscally conservative trying to survive; and that may not succeed. Personally I don't think it will and I think we are heading for a very deep depression and I don't see anything being done to prevent that. I see things being done to cause that.

ps. I won't be living to 100.

[Ian Gills]

Your historical facts are wrong Gary. The pilgrims were practising communal farming at the time of the feast and did not give it up until years later.

The current crisis in Europe, that started here, really shows that the profit motive has become slightly outmoded, and must be complemented by the incentives of the welfare state. Your traditional system of individual freedom alone is incapable of solving the complex problems of the 21st century. If you want proof, look at the value of my house. It has dropped by one-half and is continuing to fall. And my salary has hardly increased in two years. This cannot be termed success by any measure. Perhaps your pocket book is doing better. I hope it is.

The housing market went bust here, under Republican free market policies, and everything has imploded.

Helping to meet the material needs of the the free men and women of this country through the full power of centralized government is now the only way to go. With nearly 10% unemployed as a result of the Bush recession, what other choice do they have?

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion that the fat man got that way through his own hard work. So they are going to solve all the problems of human misery through less Government. Well, now, if Corporate America had the answer and we've had decades of it, shouldn't we expect it to read the score to us once in a while? Shouldn't they be telling us about the increase each year in wages? The reduction in the need for public housing and unemployment benefits? It's not happening. Wages have stagnated and the jobless are going up.

Washington D.C. is the answer. And the people that work there are very very nice.

[Gary Slusser]

Yes Ian, we both agree that the Pilgrams had to stop the communal living and go to capitalism to survive. There was no government then nor any of the modern things our federal government says we require today, and that we can not pay for.

The dems have controlled congress something like 50 yrs out of the last 60 yrs, and presently since Jan 2007.

For those that don't like politics... politics controls every part of our lives. To pay no attention to politics is dangerous to your way of life and that prevents you from being prepared for the changes that are coming that will change our lives for the worse and forever.

The problem is that too many people don't see what is happening and by the time they do, it will be way too late to do anything about it. I believe we may be past the point of no return already. If I'm wrong it won't harm you at all, if I'm right, you being unprepared will make your life much harder and you may not survive for very long.

We are monetizing our debt (instead of seriously cutting spending). If you don't know what that means and what that leads to, you should read up on it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=m...US358&ie=UTF-8

[Ian Gills]

I owe much more than I have in the Bank. So bring it on.

If the value of the dollar goes down, then so does my debt.

And house prices would go up too.

I would not want to be a saver right now though. And the last thing you want to be in is gold. When that bubble goes, there will be another mess.

I wouldn't worry too much about America's debt. You don't owe that much, at least relative to your size.

But you do spend too much on the police and the armed forces. I'd cut veteran benefits right away. They're squeezing the system.

I have never been to a country where ex-servicemen drive such nice cars.

I wish I earned as much as a retired vet. Being in the army here is a good job if you can get it. Especially when you leave.

[Cookie]

Wow, Ian, I can't speak for all retired vets, and you knew I would chime in on this one, right? But, my dear ole' dad who served in the big one, lost his hearing, and as he would put it, some other things, only got still at the time of his death in 1992, a whooping $55.00 a month in army disability/pay. That was it. He was a brillant man who because of PTSD, had a hard time working, although he did, and I was supporting my dad when I was graduated just from high school. I was buying food at age 15 for my family. I have always, and probably will always be accountable for everything not only in my life but in others' as well. I don't know if you grew up with a dad with PTSD, but it wasn't fun. His nightmares in the middle of the night became mine. I never knew how to help him. In his nightmares, he would be yelling about guns being pointed at him. Over and over. My dad, in the big one, was a hero, which he always was to me anyway in life, he was a nice man, but it was hard to understand his fears. I would hold my dad and pat his back. Therefore, I kind of developed this routine, I held and my patted my sons backs growing up, and then, my husband's but, when I started to so-call date again, and patted my dates... well, it didn't go over well. lol. I am very motherly, lol. He never called again, lol. that is okay. He was weird anyway.

Those retired vets, those vets in general, without them, without them serving and laying their lives on the line like they do, we would be unprotected here at home. I give them my thanks. And, if my taxes are higher because of it, so be it, they deserve it.

My 2 cents worth, on behalf of my dad, who taught me everything I know, including electronics, and raised me to be a girl in a man's world and hold my own. I owe him everything. So does the many mens lives he saved that day in Anzio.

For this he got $55.00 a month. I don't know what cars you are thinking of, but he drove a small truck, which didn't have a radio or heat.

[Ian Gills]

He was clearly a very good man Cookie.

All the vets I see nowadays seem to get a free college education, home loan guarantees, great (free) healthcare and drive around in Ford Harley Davidson F150s.

Something must have changed. I wonder if it's the Democratic Party giving handouts?

[Gary Slusser]

I owe much more than I have in the Bank. So bring it on.

If the value of the dollar goes down, then so does my debt.

And house prices would go up too.

I would not want to be a saver right now though. And the last thing you want to be in is gold. When that bubble goes, there will be another mess.

I figured that. So when the crash comes you won't have a house or be able to buy one, and you'll be broke too.

You'll just have the clothes on you and in a bag tied to the end of a stick that you can throw over your shoulder as you plod along to the local urban overcrowded homeless shelter.

You can't spend gold, so don't put any money in gold. Spend what ya got now to buy a ton of rubber bands (rope is better), or beans, toilet paper, water bottles (you can scoff them out of your urban dumpsters now for nothing) so you have something people need so you can barter/trade them for meager amounts of food and water.

If you really could plumb and weren't waving the union jack constantly I'd think of saving you from shelters and soup lines. We are going to hide'n thrive in Texas. I'm thinking if I have to go to my backup plan, plan B, it will be to catch a couple of Jose's north bound boys with the 60 lb packs of 'weed' and we could package it individually'n sell it. You could be my mule to get it into the great progressive democrat band members in Austin and San Antonio to trade for their electronic toys; iPhones, iPads, laptops, a couple guitars. A few brass instruments too so we can sound Hispanic after dark around the campfire. That would help with us acquiring the raw materials for our business. Along with boots, guns, belts, new jeans, shirts, jackets and fake IDs to barter with. And black backpacks for you to take things to/from town in.

[Ian Gills]

when the crash comes

Wake up call. It has happened!

And none of the rest will happen. Way before that point is reached, the poor and disillusioned will revolt, steal from the rich and balance will be restored.

We either do it the easy way, through taxes and bigger Government, or the hard way.

End the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

Funny how the only people kicking up a stink about it are the rich. I don't hear anyone earning below 250k raising an eyebrow.

But if we do return to a barter economy, I've got a great pump you might be interested in.

[Cookie]

I donate my time and have been for many years to the Vet Hospital, and I see many people like my dad. That is why I do it. I couldn't help him, so maybe, I can others. I have been working on a book, called, Shell-Shocked, so, if anyone here wants to contribute I would love to read and listen.

My own nephew joined and is coming home in 2 weeks, he is in basics. He saw a plane with a lot of coffins coming off and he was heading over there, to Afraghanstan (sp) for 2 years, he knew of. He was told he would have a 50% chance of coming home not unlike, what he saw. So, not knowing how this works but while in basics one can change their mind, and he decided he didn't want the military. He is going back to being a mechanic, which I am glad. He already got his education, $50,000 worth before he joined. He just always wanted the military. I am glad he changed his mind. Plus, I need tie-rods.

[Cookie]

My dad had the GI Bill for home buying, but he never bought a house. But, it isn't the ownership on paper which makes a house a home. Now, as an RE agent, those vets gets tons of help whenever I can. My husband was Air Force, and we used his when we bought our first house, no money down and a much lower interest rate. Now, so far as education, he paid his way. As I did, too. My dad would not even sign the papers for me to get a grant. lol. You pay your way. I did. My sons both got grants and what they couldn't get as grants we got as loans. They pay monthly. The way it should be, they or both of us, paying for their educations.

I had a very good dad, he was very funny. People never realized he wasn't pretending he couldn't hear and he got the biggest laugh out of it, when they thought he was rude. I would tell him what they said, lol.

He was clearly a very good man Cookie.

All the vets I see nowadays seem to get a free college education, home loan guarantees, great (free) healthcare and drive around in Ford Harley Davidson F150s.

Something must have changed. I wonder if it's the Democratic Party giving handouts?

[Cookie]

For all you people who wake up each morning and so far are pretty healthy,not having to fight something fatal, do not take this day for granted.

For all you people who have a mom to call, or a dad to visit, do not take this day for granted.

For those of you, whose spouse is sitting next to you, or within an arm's reach, do not take this day for granted.

Give thanks.

[Redwood]

I'm thankful that finally an increasing number of Americans are starting to understand our present political/economic situation and doing something about it. It gives me a bit of hope that I may be wrong but I'm afraid it's too little too late and many of us won't survive what I think is coming.

It's too bad because they are the dumbest ones....

A good many of us saw this train wreck in the making start over 40 years ago....

And now we look at these newly informed sheeple lined up waiting for words of wisdom from the likes of Glenn Beck & Sarah Phailin...

Oh boy! That should finish the process of this nosedive into the ground....

[Redwood]

Anyhow back to the subject of the thread....

Many do not know this but the first Thanksgiving in the new world was actually in Texas in the year 1541...
Held by Coronado's men with an Indian tribe in the Texas Panhandle...

http://catholicism.org/first-thanksgiving.html

[Gary Slusser]

Wake up call. It has happened!

And none of the rest will happen. Way before that point is reached, the poor and disillusioned will revolt, steal from the rich and balance will be restored.

What I think I see coming has never happened on the scale I see. Yes, the unions will strike and riots will break out, that will be the beginning of the end and the only way the government will 'balance' things will be with a dictator and a bunch of guns.

But if we do return to a barter economy, I've got a great pump you might be interested in.

My solar system is large enough but I wouldn't run a regular household size pump on it. I can only store 100 gals of fresh water anyway. I have a 12vdc pump for that. I'll be gathering water in small containers and then transferring it to containers that will allow me to boil it in quickly. Most of us will have to do that if I'm right, yet many or most won't be able to. I'm looking at a "solar furnace" to do that with. It can melt soft drawn copper tube in like 30 seconds. It's a bit larger than I need or can use so I'll have to downsize it considerably. I'd like to cook on it in cast iron equipment.

Other than the pump, what else have you done to get prepared?

Do you have a good pemmican recipe?

Redwood, how about you, you should be totally prepared to be totally off grid'n self sufficient, any hints?