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Thread: Keep on doing what you do

  1. #1
    Questions from readers Guest's Avatar
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    Default Keep on doing what you do

    Terry Love's DIY forum, Oh my word, what a huge source of entertainment this site truly is. Between the self proclaimed experts like Gary Slusser and Valve man who both think that every word they type is the word of god himself, to the virtual non existence of any real or fair moderating or Terry himself having to edit close to 90% of the posts these two idiots make one wonders if there is any valuable information left. But who cares? It's far more fun to watch thread after thread degenerate into name calling antics and the inevitable banning of yet another member. I think we are up to 15 or 16 members now that have fallen to the Slusser axe. Apparently Terry and Gary are either related or Terry has been defending this dufus for so long now that he's afraid to do what he should have done a couple years ago and that's to get rid of the two guys ( valveman and Slusser) that have done the most damage to his pathetic site. Terry says his site is the most visited plumbing site on the web and it probably is. Folks go for entertainment, not for any real useful advice. It's a bit like a soap opera and you really have to follow the site daily and often because stuff gets deleted pretty fast there. One of the best things is the sheer paranoia of everyone involved to the point where they are now pretty much accusing anybody that is a new member of being a troll ( I suspect some are but hey, it's fun ) Terry has shut off private messaging ostensibly because he was "having problems" with the software but the truth is that these paranoid fools think the members are plotting against them LOL can you believe that? Members plotting against.... a plumbing forum? DUH Get a life fellas. Oh no, never mind, keep on doing what you do, it's the most fun site on the web. Not much value as a diy site, but damn entertaining on the whole.
    Chelmsford

    This post was found on a website, and reposted here by Terry
    I don't know who Chelmsford is, I doubt Chelmsford knows who he is either, just another made up name I guess. I get plenty of anonymous postings like this from people that hide behind their keyboards. Terry
    Last edited by Guest; 11-22-2010 at 09:54 AM.

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    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
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    If you make accusations about people or forums the burden of proof is on you.
    Last edited by Thatguy; 11-19-2010 at 12:04 PM.

  3. #3
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Gary Slusser has been posting here since, well a long, long time.
    http://www.terrylove.com/search/search.pl if you do a search for Slusser on this link, you come up with some very old posts.

    There are some relative newcomers to the Internet, and I guess the question is what do they provide for the homeowner or the DIY.
    I see them write that they are all bout DIY, but when someone tries to teach DIY, they get uncomfortable with it. The complaints are from business owners, not the homeowners. What does that tell you?
    Have I ever gotten a complaint from a homeowner about Gary?

    No.

    So is this a DIY problem, or is it the other companies wanting DIY information off the Internet?
    Gary has posted thousands of times without a homeowner complaint.

    If homeowners are wanting information, I guess we will keep doing what we are doing.
    Last edited by Terry; 11-19-2010 at 11:09 AM.

  4. #4
    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Franklin View Post
    I agree with the OP here that the moderating appears to take sides--it is not evenhanded.
    Does it side with accuracy of the info in the posts or the person posting it? The second case means "politics."

    Is either case "normal" for Web forums?
    Last edited by Thatguy; 11-19-2010 at 12:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Gary has been banned from most other forums, and when I go to those forums, there is very little information that is usable.
    So why would anyone even use those forums? It beats me.

    I believe that those other forums have been shut down. Yes people still ask questions, but how many times do you hear,

    "Call your plumber, he will make it work for you"

    Well Duh.
    Call a plumber. Sweet.
    I can do the same thing on this forum. Call a plumber. See how smart that makes me?

    Or I can let someone like Gary actually give answers to problems.
    Or we can say "Call a plumber."
    Hmm.........Let me think.

  6. #6
    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Franklin View Post
    Gary Slusser--to my observation--has posted things in this forum worse than that posted by others who have been banned. The only explanation that seems to fit is that the moderators are not even handed.

    . . . is the tolerance for the bad behavior of Gary Slusser but not tolerance for comparable bad behavior when it is displayed by others.
    You might also Google the exact phrase
    "Gary Slusser"

    When I Google my real name I get far less hits and they are of a different nature.

    I've been on a few forums and I would say this situation is unusual. I don't know quite what to make of it. Maybe time will tell.
    But I do know if these issues are not thoroughly addressed they will keep coming back.

    This subforum is out of my field so I can't say either way about the merits of the complaints.
    Last edited by Thatguy; 11-19-2010 at 03:46 PM.

  7. #7
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    If someone is a member of a dozen forums, then why do you need to blackball Gary from "every" forum on the Internet. You have gotten Gary banned on the other twelve forums, and want to ban him here. If Gary were to finally be banned from the Internet, then I suppose the rest of you can let the entire thing just disappear. I know that you guys don't like Gary selling his product on the Internet, and that keeps coming up. He no longer can do that on the other twelve forums you post on. Well.....good for you. The way I see it though, is here is a guy that does his best to educate and inform whenever he can.

    I am so glad the plumbers are cool. They give me zero problems.
    It's just the softener forum.

  8. #8
    Previous Member Water Dude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    If someone is a member of a dozen forums, then why do you need to blackball Gary from "every" forum on the Internet. You have gotten Gary banned on the other twelve forums, and want to ban him here. If Gary were to finally be banned from the Internet, then I suppose the rest of you can let the entire thing just disappear. I know that you guys don't like Gary selling his product on the Internet, and that keeps coming up. He no longer can do that on the other twelve forums you post on. Well.....good for you. The way I see it though, is here is a guy that does his best to educate and inform whenever he can.

    I am so glad the plumbers are cool. They give me zero problems.
    It's just the softener forum.
    Finally, this boil is coming to a head. I don't care if Gary sells here or anywhere for that matter. It's when he says I don't know what I'm talking about that bothers me. I don't claim to know it all, but I do have a fair amount of knowledge to share with your clients. When I first started with this site, I defended Gary because I thought the poster made a personal attacked. Then I soon discovered the true Gary. He has attacked me, my company and my reputation without you stepping in. When I returned the favor, I was banned. I came back and soon Gary was at it again. Gary started questioning my experience and making it seem I don't know what I'm talking about. Then I got to thinking. Why is it that the rules state no advertising, but Gary is able to advertise here? Why is everyone else getting banned, but it is Gary that is starting the mess? It's got to be because of kickbacks. That is what I believe. May not be true, but how else do you explain why 1 person that starts a lot (not all) of arguements and not be banned. Like I said, I give a rats ass as to who and who does not sell here. I visit this site to help folks with their problems. If I don't know what the solution is, I don't post.

  9. #9

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    I may be missing the point here, but how can one member ban another member? I thought that was the duty of the moderators. And, if someone was banned from, say a dozen forums, that would pretty much signify a pattern of self-destruction more than a conspiracy because I can't imagine that all other members here are also on all those other forums let alone anyone being able to ban another member anywhere.

    I am confused with your summarization. Very perplexing for you to say, since you are the administer of a forum and you are well aware how forums work. Most forums DO encourage members to report errant or aggressive behavior, but it is then the duty of ONLY the moderators to take (or neglect to) action. Is this forum different, I mean can another member be delegated to ban me? If not, then how can you assume that members on other forums banned anyone?

    Isn't the "call a plumber" analogy a little contrite considering the innumerable sincere opinions offered here particularly when you think they are so "cool"? I have seen numerous threads deleted and also a certain member keeping a low profile for a short time only to soon re-emerge in the same color coat doing it all over again, and again threads deleted ad naseum.

    Terry it is your forum and you can run it the way you wish, but glib, pithy, and tetherless replies to focused, valid and chronic concerns made by highly qualified and sincere members doesn't shed good light on the quality of what could be an excellent avenue of information and assistance. Instead, threads continuously deteriorate into a convoluting quagmire of insults, accusations and negative innuendos at best and downright ugly personal attacks at worst.

    The solution is simple ---or suffer a continuum of egocentric behavior.
    Last edited by chevy427; 11-20-2010 at 06:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by another voice View Post
    Fat ( I weigh 185)
    Short ( I'm 6 foot tall)
    You're doing better than me
    http://www.whathealth.com/bmi/formula.html

  11. #11
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    09-09-2009 02:27 PM

    Re: No More Originally Posted by nhmaster

    Not gonna do this with you anymore. I am a licensed professional. You are an unlicensed HACK that reads shit on the internet and thinks you are gods gift to the water industry. I've been dealing with you hacks for 30 + years now. Whether you give a crap or not, what you are doing on these forums is unprofessional. You say you are helping the Diy guy but let's not loose sight of the fact that what you are really doing is helping yourself. Keep it up and you will get yourself banned, I will see to it personally. If you don't think I can, then go ahead, try me.
    ***************

    I received that as a PM the beginning of Sept 09 from nhmaster (AKA Guest, Another Voice, Wally Hayes, Peter Griffin etc.).

    NHmaster has also stated in the Trades forum here in June/July 09, at least twice, how much he is against DIYers and that plumbers should stop posting on forums to help DIYers. Those posts have been deleted back in Aug-Sept 09.

    I just found a copy of that, with the same title/subject. Read the whole thread and you'll see a number of plumbers that used to post here; and why they don't anymore.
    http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/ok-ive-had-enough-4376/

    OK, I've had enough Times are tough out there. So tough that a lot of long established plumbing companies are either laying off significant portions of their staff or closing the doors completely. Enrollment in plumbing apprentice classes is down better than 50% nation wide from a couple years ago. Salaries are down or frozen, benefits are hard to come by. A once proud and lucrative trade is slowly dying. So here we are on these DIY forums, freely giving advice and years of knowledge and experiance to homeowners, contractors, handymen, hell any schmuck thats asks us nicely. WHY? why in gods name are we so damn willing to sell out our trade and lively hood just so that we can stroke our ego's ? See me everyone. I'm so smart. I know all the answers. I'll lead you through your whole re-model for FREE. Well no more for me. The only thing anyone is getting from me on other forums is "call a professional" or humerous remarks. I for one am tired of sticking the knife into my own damn back. I've had this discussion with others before and those that defend thier actions always give the same lame excuse. " They are going to do it anyway, so why not help them out" Know what? Probably right. But I would prefer to let them DIY and F*&% it all up so that one of us has to go in and fix it.
    __________________
    So little time, so many asses to kick

    Protect your trade, think before you buy

    **************

    He has gone to all the forums I post in and done his best to get me banned. IIRC he has failed everywhere. He has been successful in getting anything that could be wildly considered as "advertising" removed from my posts or the posts deleted.

    He has also contacted many plumbers here and seems to be successful in getting them to stop posting here.

    Andy CWS (AKA Chevy427, big dripper, etc. ect. etc.) has done the same thing at many forums. That started in 2002 IIRC.

    They report post and otherwise whine and complain to mods and admins like little kids and do their best to get me banned. As Barney Franklin (AKA Bob999) has here along with Water Dude (AKA Skip Wolverton, biermech etc.).

    ps. all the AKAs have been banned here with about 4+ years of Andy's (AKA checvy427) posts having been deleted. And I have not been banned from a dozen forums.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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    I have been banned from this place too because of Gary's antics. The guy has no right telling people how a water well should be repaired unless he has the right experience in the well business. I got banned because Gary started complaining about the advice that i gave to a homeowner about having his well properly inspected by a professional instead on treating the water. The guy had surface water entering his well everytime it rained. In the well business that is a red flag that there is cross contamanation ocurring and the problem should not be treated with conventional water treatment. Gary was totally offended by my suggestions and started a rant campaign against me. Because the moderator had no clue on the subject, he tossed me and kept the culprit. Another time a guy had a similar problem with his water being discolored and he had a big opening in the ground where surface water was pouring down along the well casing contaminating his well. I gave him sound advice on how a well should be sealed and Gary went on to tell the guy to just place bags of salt around the opening. That would be the kind of advice that you would get from someone that hasnt spent the proper amount of time in the trade and advice like that is why people are licensed in this trade.

    I am a licensed well driller and know how wells should be properly connstructed and repaired. I wonder what Terry would do if he was on his plumbing forum and some unlicensed plumber started questioning his advice on how something should be done to code especially if it means putting someones health at risk. In my opinion the moderators that are here should be licensed and certified on the trade the forum is about or else people just get tossed for arguing. How can you properly moderate a forum unless you know everything about the trade. If they had a clue as to what the argument was about the proper actions will be taken.

    waterwiz

  13. #13
    DIY Member TWEAK's Avatar
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    Well, I like Gary and find his posts to be informational and helpful. There are others on the softener forum that are also helpful, too... but Gary is pretty consistently good and helpful. I've seen others escalate differences of opinion as much as he has... all a shame. But overall Gary is a strong resource. If anyone doesn't appreciate him or his posts, it's the internet... just click on past.

    I have to wonder what the real point of this thread was. Just to pick at the guy? That's just plain poor.

  14. #14
    Previous Member Water Dude's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Gary Slusser;278487
    They report post and otherwise whine and complain to mods and admins like little kids and do their best to get me banned. As Barney Franklin (AKA Bob999) has here along with Water Dude (AKA Skip Wolverton, biermech etc.).

    [/QUOTE]

    I have never, repeat never tried to get you banned.

  15. #15
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterwiz View Post
    I have been banned from this place too because of Gary's antics. The guy has no right telling people how a water well should be repaired unless he has the right experience in the well business. I got banned because Gary started complaining about the advice that i gave to a homeowner about having his well properly inspected by a professional instead on treating the water. The guy had surface water entering his well everytime it rained. In the well business that is a red flag that there is cross contamanation ocurring and the problem should not be treated with conventional water treatment. Gary was totally offended by my suggestions and started a rant campaign against me. Because the moderator had no clue on the subject, he tossed me and kept the culprit. Another time a guy had a similar problem with his water being discolored and he had a big opening in the ground where surface water was pouring down along the well casing contaminating his well. I gave him sound advice on how a well should be sealed and Gary went on to tell the guy to just place bags of salt around the opening. That would be the kind of advice that you would get from someone that hasnt spent the proper amount of time in the trade and advice like that is why people are licensed in this trade.

    I am a licensed well driller and know how wells should be properly connstructed and repaired. I wonder what Terry would do if he was on his plumbing forum and some unlicensed plumber started questioning his advice on how something should be done to code especially if it means putting someones health at risk. In my opinion the moderators that are here should be licensed and certified on the trade the forum is about or else people just get tossed for arguing. How can you properly moderate a forum unless you know everything about the trade. If they had a clue as to what the argument was about the proper actions will be taken.

    waterwiz
    My right to tell people is covered under the 1st amendment.

    Bags of salt!! LOL You can do a search and show us where that was proposed.

    What I said was to back fill and cover the back fill with buried empty salt bags (read heavy duty plastic) about a foot or two under the surface and then plant grass.

    DIYers are allowed to use water treatment equipment to 'fix' their poor water quality from their private residential wells in the vast majority of the US if not the entire US. You don't think they should and argued against it and got into personal attacks as you are now. If the DIYers didn't want to DIY, they wouldn't be here asking how to do it or what to do; the assumption is they already know how to call a well driller and don't need to post on a forum to be be told to call any driller; while you said they should be calling only NGWA certified drillers and only WQA certified water treatment dealers.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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