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Thread: Water well pump questions.

  1. #16
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    You sound like an anonymous someone that has been banned here for this type thing before.

    You might want to change your ways but tell me what you see wrong with my reply to the OP.

    Reading your later replies it sounds as if you don't know as much as you think.

    I have 18-20 years experience in pump work as a dealer and you know that but obviously don't believe it.

    So I suggest you stop the personal attacks and dazzle us with your knowledge, and point out any errors I make.
    No Gary, I've never been banned from here before. And you know what, I don't claim to be a know-it-all. I'm sure there is something you can find that I probably answered wrong or see things a little bit different than you. For instance, I do not agree with everything that Valveman has written or other well-drillers, but I don't see them as wrong, I just see it as a difference of opinion and experience. Shoot, my little area of knowledge doesn't hold a candle to a lot of other well guys.

    Lowe's has over 18 years as a pump dealer too but that don't make them any more an expert than anybody else.

    Thing of it is that I see you on here arguing with lots of others, but most of them seem to get banned, but you're still here. Looks a little like a pattern to me, but I ain't the one selling. I'm only here to help. I can't help but notice when one person continues to hand out bad advice over and over, even on the most simplest concepts, and then claim to be a pump person.

    So tell us again how a 220V pump uses half the energy of a 110V?

  2. #17
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Wellman View Post
    Thing of it is that I see you on here arguing with lots of others, but most of them seem to get banned, but you're still here. Looks a little like a pattern to me... I'm only here to help.
    That pattern you think you see, you might want to help yourself and pay attention to it.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  3. #18
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justwater View Post
    There is a guy around here that has sold me and my family Chevrolet pickups for over 25 years, but do you think he knows how to work on them?
    What does that have to do with what I told the OP about his situation? If you think I said something wrong, point it out. Otherwise lose the attitude.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #19
    DIY Junior Member chrt396's Avatar
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    Default aawww!!

    I feel a group hug coming on here!

    I have a friend of mine that thinks the well ran below water table. He's an experienced water well driller. The problem is that his diagnosis is from out of state. He is on an extended vacation with his wife and has not seen the pump. In my mind..as I keep telling him..ALL zones except for one were working the night before. It is highly coincidental for the next day the pump inlet pipe to be collapsed and the system shut down. I think the way most things are fixed is to attack the obvious first..or the basics..then troubleshoot from there. I normally count on him for the right diagnosis...but as inexperienced as i am...I just cannot believe that all of a sudden the pump runs dry. There was no pulsating or unevenness of spray pressure...none. It was just perfect..until. I think I'll start with...
    1. fix the collapsed pipe
    2. replace check valve
    3. check zone six or disconnect for a cycle to check for problems
    4. if that is the problem..(zone 6) Get back on forum and plead for help!!

  5. #20
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    That's a pretty good strategy. Just hang around and keep an eye on things for awhile if it does indeed pump again.

  6. #21
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good plan.

    Just curious how you have those 6 well points tied into the pump? And why you need so many? Post some pictures up if you don't mind.

  7. #22
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrt396 View Post
    I have a friend of mine that thinks the well ran below water table. He's an experienced water well driller. The problem is that his diagnosis is from out of state.
    No water from #6 may be a low water table but, a collapsed inlet pipe to the jet pump is normally caused by suction meaning there was no water getting to the pump, the pump got hot and transferred the heat to the inlet line and it was sucked shut. Usually that heat ruins plastic impellers seals etc. in the pump.

    The pump not getting water means there is a blockage preventing water flow to the pump or all 6 points are dry and dry points means that if possible air is sucked instead of water. Air suction means the inlet pipe normally doesn't collapse but it will when there is no air to suck.

    Of course there is no suction of anything IF there is no water in the pump. So a loss of prime, meaning water would have to run back down the well points due to a leaking check valve, can't collapse a suction line. I suggest that there was a more or less sudden blockage of water flow to the pump. Maybe at the check valve, like a slug of rust or slime.

    IMO your pump is probably bad and without a good pump I don't know how you can troubleshoot the system but you aren't going to fix the system until you have found out if this pump is good or bad and I wouldn't replace it until I knew for sure because it is only 6 yrs old and has not had any problems until now.

    As far as I know most of us here are from out of state, and that should make no difference but troubleshooting skill does make a difference.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #23
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justwater View Post
    i cant believe my other post got deleted because of mentioning a local company for him. i'm pretty familiar with sta-rite jet pumps, and that was good advice.
    I didn't see your deleted post but maybe it was to someone that was banned from here.

    Quote Originally Posted by justwater View Post
    ..so instead i guess your gonna let him take "the dealer's" advice. moving the pump, unhooking pipes, hooking up valves, testing.. bla bla... not that its bad or wrong, but what a pain and a waste of time imo. fix the suction, take out the plug underneath the suction and check the nozzle. if the pump has a tank, it should build and shut off whether sprinkler system is working or not. either it sucked air and lost prime, or it isnt building the desired cut out pressure (nozzle).
    If there was nothing wrong with my (The Dealer's) advice, why are you going on'n on about it? And how does he fix the suction if his pump is bad?

    Do you really think the OP knows how to check the things you are suggesting without more detailed instructions that you haven't given him yet? And if he checks those things as you suggest, how do you think he will know a good one from a bad one without you telling him or him having a new one in his hand or pictures to look at?

    You are going on about his tank (didn't he say his tank is on top the pump) and if he has one and the switch. He said that everything was fine the night before except that there was no water from well point #6. What does/could the switch or tank have to do with no water from well #6 IYO? IF the nozzle was blocked everything but #6 would not have been working fine the night before.

    He said he has a check valve (with a well point they are required on the inlet to the pump, usually close to the well point(s), in his case he probably has one on the inlet to the pump instead of one on each well point but maybe not. So how could sucking air in any of his 6 well points cause a loss of prime in his pump when the pump was running the night before when he found no water coming from #6 well?

    Edit; well point #6 or well 6 should be zone 6.
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 11-13-2010 at 12:32 PM. Reason: correction
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #24
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    Zone 6 not well 6, he was referring to sprinkler zones

  10. #25
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
    Zone 6 not well 6, he was referring to sprinkler zones
    Yes of course, thanks for correcting that error.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #26
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justwater View Post
    wow,... so the dealer has the power to edit my posts. thats rich. if i had that power i would have probably edited my post too when i proved that he had little to no experience doing well work. should stick to putting salt in a softener. i'll be installing/servicing water wells.

    again.. good sta-rite jet pump advice gets deleted. it wasnt a personal attatck to the dealer and sorry if he thought so, i do business with dealers all the time... but my guys dont claim to know much about working on wells.. they are just that.. dealers. dont even know why i'm posting, it will be deleted anyway.
    You proved I have little experience... not in my opinion.

    I don't see much difference between what I suggested and what Texas Wellman suggested and you have not said a word about his suggestion. Doing either requires plumbing to remove the pump or to install the same stop valve I suggested. We think his points are dry or blocked, so without the bucket where does he get water to test the pump?

    You expect the OP to check the "nozzle" but gave no instructions of how or how he should determine if his is good or bad.

    I said the pump is probably bad, Tx wellman said it probably would be good and you want the OP to check to see if it is good or bad with no instructions as to how he does that. And you're some great well/pump guy? Go back to speed pump's forum and gossip, you're great at that but helping DIYers to do it themselves, you are not good and IMO you don't want them to do it themselves and that's why you suggested the OP call a local pump "dealer". Compare the two replies below and tell me the difference between them.

    In post #3 I said; (recall the well points may be dry or blocked)
    Remove the pump, hook it up to a water source like a 5 gal bucket and see if it will pump water. That would be without the water being under pressure; such as a bucket filled with a garden hose as the pump takes water from the bucket. Then put a stop valve on the pump's outlet and see if it will produce like 50-75 psi of water pressure. If so the pump should be ok but I don't think it will be due to being over heated yesterday. (recall it takes 5 hrs to do the 6 zones)

    Then replace the bad pipe and see if you have any water in the points and figure out why they went dry.

    Then after jumping on me in reply #4 about me giving well/pump advice with "Gary I see you're still trying to give pump advice. Shouldn't you stay out of the well/pump section and concentrate on something you might know about?, Texas Wellman said in reply #5. Recall to replace the collapsed pipe he has to disconnect it but... if he doesn't have water he can get from the well points he can't test the pump.

    Reply # 5 by Texas Wellman. Replace the bad inlet pipe, install a discharge valve on the pump with a gauge. Prime and dead-head the pump. If it produces pressure, at least 30-40 psi, the pump is probably good. If it will not produce any pressure, and presuming you do not have any airleaks etc, then your pump impeller or diffuser is probably melted. Might just be better off to get a new pump depending upon age. Stay away from Flo-Tec or any Home Depot or Lowe's Special, get a Goulds or other similar quality.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  12. #27
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justwater View Post
    If the pump usually runs 5.5 hours at a time running 6 zones at once up until just the other day, I can't imagine how it wouldn't pump water long enough to run and check the pump... I never said you were wrong in your advice, just wouldn't be the first thing I would do.
    It is what it is, whether you can't imagine it or not.

    Your first reply in this thread that I can find certainly looks as if you're saying you think I haven't worked on pumps and since you had quoted what I said, you are actually calling me a liar; it's #18 in this thread and says: "
    Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    I have 18-20 years experience in pump work as a dealer and you know that but obviously don't believe it. [/quote

    "There is a guy around here that has sold me and my family Chevrolet pickups for over 25 years, but (emphasis is Gary's) do you think he knows how to work on them?"


    Last edited by justwater; 11-12-2010 at 04:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by justwater View Post
    I won't argue I may be vague. I'm not very experienced in helping in forums, but I'm working on it. I take for granted the OP must have some idea of what's going on or they wouldn't attempt it in the first place, but I know that isn't always the case.
    And yet all I saw him saying is to ask why did this happen with an implied question of what to do now.

    Quote Originally Posted by justwater View Post
    I suggested a local company "IF he needed a well guy".. But it was deleted so whatever. I also don't see how you could say I am good at gossip.. When have I been known to gossip about anyone? I don't know you from Adam, all I know is you are a dealer who must sell things you never lay your hands on if u do roam around in a motor home,. Don't get your panties in a wad.. Nobodys talking about you and I couldn't care less if u think I'm good at what i do. I guess it will have to be proven later by any future posts I might make.
    You, Txwellman and then ballvalve (that has been banned here before as raucina) are talking about me. And you don't know me. That's true and in talking about me you're gossiping IMO.

    I didn't delete your suggestion of a local guy and didn't see the post but I did say it was probably to someone that has been banned here. I know you post on his site, you have 263 posts there. I know many folks there gossip about me, and others here. Many of them have been banned from here but...

    Tell me how you aren't a pump dealer yet sell pumps and buy parts for them unless you are a distributor of Sta-Rite or other manufacturers and what makes you think I'm lying about servicing customers' pumps wells and pressure tanks because I was a dealer? I was not just a retail store selling pumps and I wasn't selling wholesale to anyone in or out of my motor home; so I was a distributor's dealer, that's all that's left.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #28
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    against my better judgement, i will put in my .02 one final time for the OP's sake alone, if there's any way he's still watching all of this.

    TO ALL SHALLOW JET PUMPS THAT RUN HOT, AND MOTOR DOES RUN... *keep in mind another problem usually causes a pump to do this, here I usually see it more often from waterlogged tanks causing excessive cycling*.... leave the pump where it sits (imo). fix suction leak (1.25" threaded fitting in pump inlet and any other pipes/fittings harmed by the heat), prime pump (fill pump up with water), now see if it pumps water (be sure a valve is open somewhere for water to run and turn power on). may have to kill power and reprime a couple times depending on distance from water source. if it does prime and steadily pump water, cut off main valve (usually the one right after the pump and tank) and see if it will build pressure and shut off (gauge should climb until cutout setting and pump shuts off.). if it does this, be sure your tank's pressure is correct to avoid cycling issues... (by checking either the system gauge or at the tank when u run water and pump cuts on.. i say use the tank for more accurate 2psi difference.. then kill power, drain your system completely and leave the water on. when all water is drained, check air in tank with tire gauge, should be 2 psi lower than pump's cut on pressure.) turn power back on and cut off water, be sure it builds and shuts off. then for good measure, run some water and make it kick on and off one more time. now go eat a sandwich.

    without knowing more, this would likely be my exact steps if called to this job (sandwich included). if the pump does pump water but doesnt build pressure then you have another problem with the pump previously listed in a likely off topic post. if the pump never does pump water (you fix suction and other leaks, prime and run it several times if needed).. and no water is being pumped out... then you may need to bench test the pump to be sure (instructions are in the only posts still here). then if alls well with pump you may need to look at some possible well production issues and/or any other possible leaks from well-to-pump connections.
    Last edited by justwater; 11-15-2010 at 11:10 PM. Reason: to be even more on topic.

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