Kohler toilet Cimmeron? or other

Hi,
I'm new here and remodeling our only bathroom. I know Toto is the best... but basically they are not widely distributed around my area. I can find a place that sells them... but it seems no one in the area has heard of them..

I was thinking of other options... Kohler and American standard are big around here. Seems they have a stanglehold on the market.

From a name POV I'd rather have a Kohler. My parents have a San Raphael, which looks ok, flushes ok, but kinda annoying, sometimes it keeps running, sometimes doesn't completely flush.

Was wondering about the Cimmeron, is it good? i've read the Terry Love's comments... I understand its not the 100% best for heavy duty.. but is it acceptable? or more than acceptable, nice?
I don't think it looks the best, but was getting it b/c of the "Class Five," new better technology..
Is there something from either brand that would be considered better?

I'm looking for quiet and a good flush... quiet especally.

The Cimmarron is fairly new...less than a year...but seems to have a repuptation so far for decent performance. The Kohler San Raphael you mentioned is known to be troublesome.

In my opinion, the best performing toilets in any brand are the power-assist versions. But, they are louder than gravity flushes, cost more initially, and parts are expensive down the line. Because of these issues, I have no quarrel with someone who chooses a gravity toilet. You already have found out that Toto is rated best, but they are not cheap either. Cimmarron and Champion are generally well received. Others that I am not personnally familiar with are also evaluated on Terry's toilet forum.

I have had a Mansfield with a Sloan Flushmate in my house for 13 years. I have no plans to change it. All the issues I mentioned are true: it cost more to purchase, parts when needed are expensive, and it is loud. BUT, it flushes! Have NEVER had to plunge it, although a double flush can be used if excessive paper use requires it!

So, I think you have done most of the research needed. Now it's decision time. The factors are cost, styling, availability, and flush performance.



edited post for spelling errors! jbo

If i actually went with the Toto, would most problems be easily fixed? ie: since its not widely stocked by me.

Also, is the UltraMax much better than the Ultimate? worth the extra $$? is parts availablity the same?

Should I get a better toilet (Toto) that is not stocked widely around? or should i get the lesser toilet "Kohler Cimmeron" widely stocked, but merely adequate...?


thanks

Chris

The Kohler uses the Fluidmaster fill valve,
the Toto uses the Korky quiet fill.
The last time I was at the hardware store, they had both on the racks.

Either toilet can be repaired quickly and for most of it without tools.


Here is a picture of the Toto Ultimate 1-piece toilet.
The fill valve and flapper can be replaced without tools.

The flushvalve with the overflow tube removes and installs with two clips that are held by stainless screws, just below the flapper.
The Ultimate is very good for the money. I sell plenty of them.

With 1.6 gallons for the flush, you won't have as much bowl cleaning as the old five gallon bowls of yesteryear, the Toto edges past the Cimarron on that though, a more thorough rinse.
The Cimarron does not rinse the back of the bowl.
The Toto does rinse the bowl.
With either toilet, holding the handle down during the flush will drop another gallon if you feel like it.

don't waste your money on the Cimmaron

I face a similar delimma. I just finished redoing a bathroom and was looking for a very good toilet. The Ultramax is available in my area in about 6 weeks and the Ultimate is available across town. Needless to say, my wife is tired of the kids sharing our master bath. Seems family togetherness has its limits. Of course I am not the one who started the bathroom remodel. Alas a story for another day. I thought I had the perfect solution, there is a Home Depot just around the corner and they carry the Kohler Cimmaron.

So I bought one (Kohler that is) on Sunday the 7th. One of my kids clogged it on Monday the 8th. As soon as it is clear and cleaned, it is going back. I'd estimate that date to be the 9th. Sooo much for the 675 gram rating. I give it a 0 gram rating, because that is its performance. Worse than the 30 yr old Eljer I sat by the road.

Plunging is an interesting exercise in futility since the access is rectangular. I did try filling the bowl with water several times prior to plunging. Oh, did I mention I have over an hour into this, so far. Takes a little while for gravity to work its stuff on the added water. As far as plunging goes; well lets say it was fortunate, I was standing off to the side while plunging. One must watch the smack back as the plunge pressure blows by the plunger and back along the slot. Has a tendency to send water over the front of the bowl.

I wouldn't recommend wasting your money on the Kohler Cimmaron because it doesn't flush worth a XXXX, oh well you get the drift.

Man, it seems that i'm am gonna be up for a good fight now....

We're redoing our only bath, along with the whole downstairs of the house with my future father in law. My fiancee along with him have never heard of a Toto. If it were up to him, I'd have a AS Cadet or a Plebe.

She along with him, both think Kohler is considered the best. You should have heard what i had to go through to agree on the Cast Iron tub as oppose to the Americast.

I think I'm going to try and get the UltraMax.. not sure how much it is around by me, but on this site, its only 100 more than the Cimmeron with seat etc..

I was hoping the Cimmeron was the answer, Kohlers answer to Toto, but alas, it sounds like its not up to par...

ohh well
thanks

Chris

Chris,
Ask the future father inlaw if he's ever heard of Toyota and Honda?
They seem to be doing well in the US.

The Toto Ultimates and Ultramaxes are made in Atlanta Georgia.
Toto is much bigger than companies like Kohler and American Standard.

It has been like Detroit in the 70's. The US left the door wide open for a better product. Toto dropped a plant in Atlanta and started making product.

FYI - I tracked down a showroom in my area and put an order in for an UltraMax, elongated. They talked me out of the Sansgloss. I'm paying a little more than i should... , but i figure, its local, i did see it in their showroom, and having something shipped to save $30 is foolish.

basically spending 140 more than the kohler. and about 90 more than budget, but i think we'll be happy.

was there any differences in Ultramax besides the SansGloss, and elongated vs round? Mine is elongated and includes seat.

Also, we have a tub on one side, and the vanity on the other, what kind of spacing do you recommend? i was going to do 1 ft on either side, so a total of 40 inches for the toilet... good? or too small?

thanks,

Chris

Chris, why did they talk you out of CEFIONTECT? I'm planning on replacing my current toilets with UltraMax toliets and had been thinking that the CEFIONTECT option sounded like a good idea. What are the arguments against it?

The only things I can think are against SanaGlos are that it adds some to the cost (not sure how much), and that Toto does not offer all colors with SanaGlos. I've got it on two toilets and a sink. It is basically a light wipe to clean off whaterver didn't just wash away. My old toilet took some scrubbing to clean off junk much more often. Usually, everything just flushes down the drain.

Their comment was it wasn't worth extra expense that it wasn't really any better. I was getting white so color wasn't an issue. I don't know if that is the case or not. i went with his recommendation, maybe erroniously, but basically i wasn't too keen on spending the extra money if the guy selling it to me didn't think it was better.

Also, I would defiantely have bought from Terry, but I'm on the east coast...

thankss
Chris

My guess is thatit would make a difference in the quality of your water...in my house, it DID make a difference.

The Ultimate flushes 325 grams. Suprised by the good results. I'll try it for the price.