GPM rate explanations?

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WellHead

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Hi All,

I was just looking on Cycle Stop Valve's site and they have a chart for sizing pumps. It shows a residence with the normal complement of water-load, such as laundry, dishwasher etc.
For a 1-1/2 bathroom they say I would need a 10-gpm pump.

The question is, is that the overall rating for the pump, as in a Goulds 10GS..."
or
the gpm from the pump depth, as in a Goulds 10GS15 at 340' and 40-psi is 10.3-gpm.

Basically, I guess I am asking is what relevance is the 10GS (10-gpm) rating taken from? The charts show the 10GS15 being able to deliver from 3-gpm to 15.7-gpm depending on depth.

Thanks

Harry
 

Valveman

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The rating of 10 GPM is usually the Best Efficiency Point. Yes it will follow a curve from 0 GPM to about 15 GPM, depending on the pressure or head it sees. Your well specs say a pumping level of 235’ with 0 draw down at 20 GPM. That is unusual to have 0 draw down for me, but it is good for you. It means your pump could be set at 313’ and it would still only be lifting from 235’. But I wouldn’t set it any deeper than 259’, so it is set above the perf. Anyway, go with 50 PSI (40/60 switch) instead of 40 because your house has 15’ extra lift requirement. Then you need a pump that will deliver 10 GPM at 235’ and 50 PSI. Or on a curve you would look at 350’ total head.

If the WM25 tank is still good, it holds about 25 gallons with a 40/60 switch setting. While using water, when the tank empties and the pump starts, all you have left is what the pump can deliver. So if you have a washing machine, dishwasher, shower, and a sink running at the same time, the pressure maybe getting low. Usually depends on how big a shower head you have. A 10GS15 will deliver about 13 GPM at that head, so you should be good, especially because you will rarely have everything running at the same time.

The GS has Stainless Steel top and bottom on the pump. The LS has brass, and the Bruiser has plastic. Other than that I believe they have the same impeller stack. That is a good brand of pump but, there are several good brands. That is not a bad price from an installer. You can do better but, should you? 259’ of pipe full of water, with a 50 pounds pump and 100 pounds of wire, everything wet and slippery, is not easy to do with a tripod. Poly pipe maybe, but it is probably steel or 20’ joints of sch 80 PVC. The only place to get a hold is at the couplings, so your tripod needs to be 20’ plus the length of the pulley, pipe clamps, height of the casing, and a little extra.

Best thing would be to pay an installer to just pull everything out and lay it down. Then you can put it back on poly pipe if you have some good help. Although for what little you would be saving, a good installers experience could be worth many times that. Anybody can screw and unscrew pipe together. It is the little things that you can’t find in a book or the Internet that can make for a good installer. What kind of connections to use, where and what to tape the wire with. Torque arrestors, cable guards, or is it better without those things. Watertight electrical splice? And just knowing you shouldn’t set the pump below the perf. Little things like that can make a big difference. Then heaven forbid you should drop something, anything down the well. You could slip and drop the pump and 20’ of pipe, but even just dropping a screwdriver at the wrong time could be catastrophic.

I am not saying you can’t do it if you want. And it would be a good experience. But 250’ of rigid pipe is not as much of a DIY project as 50’ of poly pipe.

I guess I should also say that if your installer doesn't know these things already, you might be better off doing things yourself. Anybody can drive a truck with a boom on it. But knowing the important things is what makes a good installer.
 
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WellHead

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Thanks again Valveman,

OK, I understand a little better on the GPM. I had guessed 340 feet from the depth and discharge pressures.

I was not too serious about the DIY approach, but a few days back I landed on a site that explained how to do it with four 20' lengths of 2" pipe for the tripod. You cut one in three then thread the ends and make three 26' pipes for the tripod. Put"T"s at the top and chain them all together.

I have spoken to the well guy and he is OK with using my pump, but he is rethinking his price to see how close he can come to the internet one. There are many advantages to having him supply the pump so I will not drive too hard a bargain for that peace of mind. Ya get's what ya pays fer. I just wanted to drag it down from $1100 if possible. He is calling back in the morning.

Thanks for sage advice on using a well-guy for the job, I appreciate the comments and I am well aware of the important little things that can make a difference. One can be a Penny wise and Dollar foolish and I will be using him to do the work. I just don't want him too comfortable while we are negotiating pump price. LOL

The WM-25 is still in good shape and the bladder is still holding pressure when the tank is drained and open.

I have another well on the property that is no longer used. They dropped the brand new pump down there 20-years back. They could not snag it after two days fishing so they drilled another well and that's the one now going bad. The previous owner then spent the next two weeks fishing and finally snagged the pump and hauled it up. He then got the well guy to set it again but never needed.

The well-guy wants 200-bucks to pull it, but if the pump is not in good shape I will still have to put a new one down the failing well, so it makes no sense to pay to have it pulled. The pump is probably OK having sat down there for 20 years. It still works and pumps fine, albeit with a **lot** of sediment. It is about 200 feet further away from the house and I'd have to re-plumb it to use it as is. All too hard. :)

Harry
 

Thatguy

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GPM x Head [expressed in feet] divided by 3956 gives the horsepower required for a 100% efficient pump.

To lift 10 GPM [83 pounds per minute] 396' would need a 1.0 hp pump, minimum.

Some pump curves show efficiencies, which strongly depend on flow velocity, and so, GPM. The graph on page 49 of this link shows this
http://www.ppi2pass.com/ppi/PPIInfo_fl_bookInfo-CESP-CESPsample.pdf
 
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WellHead

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Thanks to everyone who helped. Much appreciated. Just heard back from the well guy and we have worked out a very amicable agreement. Costing 100-bucks more than online price but he is doing it tomorrow.

A great forum.

Harry
 
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