How's my plumber doing?

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Furd

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Ian, if you think that home in Terry's post would sell for $65k in Bothell you are stupider than you look. $465k MINIMUM is more likely and $650k wouldn't surprise me.
 

Ian Gills

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That's pennies on the dollar compared to the North East!

And in this market? They're giving houses away.

Now a boat in Bothell. That'd be worth something.
 

Redwood

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Ian,
Would you consider appraising this house in Connecticut...
If you underappraise it like Terry's house I might be able to upgrade...:D

6.2m.jpg

I mean heck! It's an older home the lawn doesn't have grass growing...
This dump can't be worth much...
 
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Ian Gills

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That's a beautiful house Redwood. But, again, you wouldn't need to pay much for it.

It's all about location, location, location you see.

I can think of at least 10 reasons you might not want to move to Connecticut:

10) You have to explain to most foreigners that you either live close to New York or Boston
9) Having to live next to New York
8) The three most famous people to come out of Connecticut were Redwood, a con man who ran a freak show and a man who was the primary cause of the Civil War
7) Because you have no point in being there other than during the fall
6) You can either be a pansy and support the Yankees or a masochist and support the Red Sox
5) (deleted because this one is boring)
4) You get to hear New Yorkers compliment you for the peace and quiet
3) (deleted because even I found this too rude)
2) People from other states are usually right
1) It's Connecticut
 
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Ian Gills

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It is cheap Redwood, but even I'll admit that it's probably out of the range of a plumber.

Now a Sparky. That would be different. He could live in a house like that.

Or a drywaller. Even a handyman.
 

Redwood

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I just found this other picture of it...

6.2ma.jpg

I guess it changes everything...
Like you said its location, location, location...
At $6.2M I don't see sparky or a drywall hanger getting in there either....
 
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Augusta

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Wow, some of you guys went from Master Plumber to Licensed Real Estate Broker in one quantum leap. Amazing.

Ian, you aren't sounding very reasonable with an estimated $65K for the home in the picture, assuming nothing is devastating in the home itself, or its location to adversely affect its market value (like next door to a busy air port). Exaggerations like that won't make you sound very credible. That being said, Washington State's foreclosure percentage has increased by 71% this year.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27329406/

Even still, I think the Gaussian distribution of depreciation of high end homes would be more like an approximate 33% at its peak. You can thank all of the inflated appraisals, subprime lending, and no money down mortgages for that.

I am licensed as Real Estate broker with my own firm, so I can speak with some credible level of authority, but knowing real estate is a local market, and not knowing any more about the Washington area other than what's on the news, I'd have no other idea what home values are like in Washington, nor would I pretend to without a proper market analysis on a specific subject home. I'd need to go inside as well.

Terry, the wages being different in Augusta is neither here nor there. I gave the agreed upon amount for completion of the job; $2,000.00 labor total both baths. I also said that new construction homes are going for roughly $50 per square foot including the lot. Labor, materials, and home values are way down in Augusta. Unemployment is way up. Everyone here wants to work. The problem is sifting through the bad ones - even the "reputable" plumbing companies while they send the new guy out.

Scope of work? Remove the inserts that were installed by the first crew, remove some drywall from above and beside the inserts (bathrooms are very small at about 6'X7'), remove the shoddy plumbing work in the first set of pictures, install new plumbing to manufacturer specs shown in second set of pictures, build out a wall roughly 2'wide by 8' tall in both baths to make up for the new inserts not going all the way out to the far wall where the wall tiles were removed by the first crew, install drywall, and mud, install new baseboards and quarter round in both bathrooms. No sanding, no painting, no floors, no haul off. Since room was very limited, they had to remove both toilets to have room to move. They also had to cut out both valves to the toilets and install new ones since the drywall was removed from behind the toilets.

I got one vote for not giving them a thing. I think that's a bit extreme. But I did just get finished explaining to them about the last group of clowns that were there. I also explained to the second crew that the first crew didn't have insurance, worker's comp, didn't pull a permit, no business license, - the GC does this type of work for the State (he's got health insurance but his workers don't). So what did the second crew do after I told them that? Didn't pull a permit (probably because they don't have a business license, and likely don't report income, etc. etc.) You would think they'd either do it right, don't do it at all, or take extreme caution. I'll take some heat for it not going down so well. I'm not new to any of this. I usually get way more than what I pay for, and I don't even take the lowest bid. This time I got burned a little, not bad though. I always, I mean ALWAYS come out ahead after I think things through (coming here for opinions helps). Just trying to not get burned again and be somewhat fair at the same time. That's why I'm here asking you guys at this point of the fiasco.

Thanks again.

P.S. Never been a fan of the phrase "you get what you pay for" although you did qualify it with "sometimes." The goal is to find a happy medium - not to find the most expensive bid out there as if the price directly correlates to the end product. I've been using an EXPERT HVAC guy for over a decade now. That guy is as good as gold. Will go out and put 1 to 2 pounds of freon, recharge units for $50 a visit. He does this on his own time on the side. Everyone else (via the company) charges about $160. I haven't had a single mishap with him or his work. And even if I did, with all the money I've saved over time with him - I'd just eat it. I haven't saved a thing with these new guys- as they started screwing up the moment I took my eyes off of them. I'll promise you this - the 3rd crew will be licensed, bonded, insured, pull a permit, and will come highly recommended by several builders. But I can almost promise you I'll have a different set of crazy crap happen with them. Plumbing companies know as well as I do that good workers are very hard to find and keep. I'll be back with the newest set of pictures soon enough. Wait and see. ;-)
 

Furd

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I just did a search on the Northwest Multiple Listing Service for homes priced between $60,000 and $70,000 in the Bothell area of Snohomish county (Bothell straddles the King-Snohomish county line) and I found ONE listing, a one bedroom, one bathroom 488 square foot condominium built in 1998. Generally speaking, homes in Snohomish county are priced lower than King county.

So, the bottom line is, Ian Gills doesn't have a clue to what real estate prices in my (and Terry's) area might be.

Ian, have you ever even been to Bothell? Ever been west of the Mississippi River?
 

Terry

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Ian Gills

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A 37,000 square feet lot. It's not in Woodinvile. It is Woodinville.

I also think the name Bothell sounds funny. Cute. But definitely funny.

I'd like to live in "Bothell".

In "Snohomish" :)

I imagine it might look something like this:

146623222_b889bc5821.jpg


And truth be told I've never been west of the Appalachian mountains. It's a long way away and I don't speak the language.
 
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Terry

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I'm sorry I said "Sometimes you get what you pay for."

Of course the guy that does work under the table in his spare time that doesn't report income to IRS is a bargain.
Gee. Why doesn't everyone work that way. What does he do in his time that isn't spare time?
Does he run a daycare?
Is he doing HVAC as a hobby?

$2000 per bathroom for plumbing, framing and drywall. Any electrical wiring with that?
Non-licensed, okay we now know that. We could tell by the pictures that they had never plumbed before.
Hows their drywall? Oh yeah, you can't do the drywall yet, the plumbing still isn't right.
So, if you're say like building a new home, you would go with the guy that was 1/3 the price of everyone else? Kind of a gamble don't you think, with wood windows, unfinished cabinets and six panel fir doors. If the 1/3 guy screws up all the unfinished wood, I would have been out a lot of money. A lot more money then the painting was going to be at the "real" price.

Do I buy lottery tickets? No. I don't.
I don't really like gambling. Some people do.
We redo lots of work that is done by handymen. Rarely do we redo work from homeowners, at least a homeowner will read instructions. Handymen don't.
You would be surprised how often I ask the homeowners to put their handymen on the phone so we can talk them through something very simple. And yet, they don't really want to know how to do it. How funny is that. I know a woman whose son-in-law was a handyman. He redid her kitchen sink and the downstairs bathroom. What a mess. Just horrible work. Though she thought that he was wonderful. Crooked walls. Tile that wasn't centered. Three p-traps under the kitchen sink, and after a while the dishwasher quit draining. No room under the sink with all that extra and useless plumbing. Fittings were even installed backwards. Vinyl flooring that was cut too short, not even touching the wall.
It was very hack.
But she thought it was wonderful. To me it looked like a mess and should have been torn out.
Last Christmas I gave him a toilet with seat. He lost the rubber cushions and seat bolts, so after he installed the seat, it slides back and forth. A homeowner would have kept the bag with the fittings and installed it correctly. For some reason, a homeowner is a little slower, and they will read the manual and determine what parts there are.
A handyman, just too much in a hurry.
 

Ballvalve

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I've been using an EXPERT HVAC guy for over a decade now. That guy is as good as gold. Will go out and put 1 to 2 pounds of freon, recharge units for $50 a visit. He does this on his own time on the side. Everyone else (via the company) charges about $160. I haven't had a single

Your expert is an expert criminal, using the owners freon and tools. Typical dirt bag 'trusted' employee.

Do you buy your clothes from professional shoplifters too?
 

Terry

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Your expert is an expert criminal, using the owners freon and tools. Typical dirt bag 'trusted' employee.

Do you buy your clothes from professional shoplifters too?
ballvalve

I was thinking it, but left that part unsaid. Funny.
 

Augusta

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Do you buy your clothes from professional shoplifters too?
ballvalve

I have a better question: Did you attempt to gain reading and comprehension skills from a third world country? Read along and I'll try to explain, although I can't force you to understand. There's a couple of you here who come out swinging in these threads. Chill out, and try to be civil.

I think some egos may be getting in the way of the truth here. Seems this site, or at least this thread, is turning into DIY vs career plumber death match.

Here's an accurate picture from someone who's neither: You have shoddy guys working for the high and mighty plumbing company who screw up work, or do extremely crappy work. You also have very few really talented plumbers working for the high and mighty plumbing company.

On the other side of the coin we have non plumbing companies (guys doing work on the side, handymen, etc.) where there are shoddy guys who screw up work, or do extremely crappy work (see the beginning of this thread). You also have very few talented non plumbing company guys out there yet they are willing to work for less than the plumbing companies because they don't have to pay rent or mortgage on a building, they don't have payroll, small advertising budget, (whether or not they're reporting their income - I can only speculate for those who bill me less than $600 per year). You guys do see and understand both sides of this coin, yes?

There's always the typical haters (see previous posts in this thread) who ASSUME that the guys who do work on the side are "dirt bags" or "criminals" without knowing the first thing about their arrangement (talking about my HVAC guy here). Also, a 30lb cylinder of R22 refrigerant is currently about $198 per cylinder, approximately $6.60 per pound. My HVAC guy has a 609 license, and had his own HVAC business before he teamed with a friend in another HVAC business. As long as his customers are his friends/family, his partner is fine with him "competing." You should probably ask before you assume, condemn, and begin with the name calling, or at least your mother should have told you that.

Regarding the 1/3 bid stuff: I don't take the lowest bid for the sake of lowest bid. I consider many things, and weigh them accordingly. What's funny to me is the hypocrisy of it all. It's usually the same folks who act like they would happily pay the highest bid (because of course highest bid = excellent end result, right?) for a project yet those same folks underpay the daylights out of their few great employees. I see that pattern of behavior time and time again with business owners. The name of the game is best results for the lowest price while operating with integrity and fairness.
 

Ballvalve

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Those weekend bargains almost always involve some sort of mendacity or theft. And it is not going to be revealed to you or to his "boss" either, no matter the "agreement" ...just a simple fact of human nature.

My mother called the trusted guy that robbed me when on vacation or out of the shop a pack of F**&^%&$ ASSS&^%^!! We had a similiar agreement also....Started their own business and did the same to each other!

She wrote the checks as the secretary for the insurance, lights, materials, fuel, tools. Noticed a nice savings when they finally got busted. Called them dirt bags too.

Bargains are good, but beware of parasites.
 

Redwood

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I've been using an EXPERT HVAC guy for over a decade now. That guy is as good as gold. Will go out and put 1 to 2 pounds of freon, recharge units for $50 a visit. He does this on his own time on the side. Everyone else (via the company) charges about $160. I haven't had a single mishap with him or his work. And even if I did, with all the money I've saved over time with him - I'd just eat it.

Thanks for contributing to the demise of the ozone layer! My 33 year old daughter that just had a chunk of melanoma carved out of her arm thanks to you and your Expert HVAC guy. In case you don't realize it the HVAC guys aren't just supposed to put in 1-2 lbs. of freon for $50 a visit but rather they are supposed to repair the leak causing the loss of freon which costs more.

BTW My daughter is fair skinned and never had a heavy exposure to the sun. She has always been the leading advocate of sunscreen being applied in our family. She is a proper skin care poster child yet has had melanoma removed. Thanks!
 
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