Plumber charged me twice and I need an opinion

**jerbrad** · 09-20-2010, 04:48 PM

My back-up sump pump was beeping so I called a plumber. They said I needed a new regular sump pump whick I paid them $415 to replace. They also told me I needed a new battery for the back-up pump. I purchased a new one and installed it as directed by the plumber and instruction on the box. The next day, the back-up pumb started beeping again. I would reset it but it still went off every 8 hours or so. I called the plumber back and they charged my $145 for a service call. They said the plug in the back of the back-up pump was unpluged so they pluged it in, tested the high water alarm and reset the system. That's right... they charged me $145 for 1/4th hour and parts. What parts were needed to plug in a plug, test a high water alarm and reset the system? Needless to say, I called and asked why I was charged for another service call. After two weeks of calls back and forth, I was told they consider it two different problems and there's nothing they would do. I have been a customer for many years. Please help. Am I wrong or was the plumber wrong?
Thanks for your comments

**Terry** · 09-20-2010, 05:10 PM

It does sound like two different issues, but in the same basic location in your home.
They did send a plumber out a second time, to work on something that you installed. Right?

Fifteen minutes? If they are like most contractors, they have to charge travel time. If they say they don't, they really are. It's built into the price most times.
Then you also have the minumum charge that many places charge for, which can vary a bit, but there is no such thing as a 1/4 hour show up fee that gets any work done. That fee is just to write up a quote.

The other day, I dropped off a part in Seattle for a job my son was working on. In the evening it would have been much quicker, but during the rush hour drive time, it was 1.5 hours, and I spent no time on the job.
Take all those 1.5 hours, with no time on the job, and if you weren't charging for it, how would you buy gas even?

But the pump is working, and the back up pump too, right?
It's all good.

And no, I wasn't able to charge for my actual time for dropping off the part, it was more like a money loser, but it kept the job moving.
I'm always amazed that UPS will deliver to someones door step for less then $15
But then when you look at the trucks, they're dropping stuff off on every street as they drive by. Those $15 charges start to really add up.

**Estrogen Hostage** · 09-21-2010, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Terry

It does sound like two different issues, but in the same basic location in your home.
They did send a plumber out a second time, to work on something that you installed. Right?

Fifteen minutes? If they are like most contractors, they have to charge travel time. If they say they don't, they really are. It's built into the price most times.
Then you also have the minumum charge that many places charge for, which can vary a bit, but there is no such thing as a 1/4 hour show up fee that gets any work done. That fee is just to write up a quote.

The other day, I dropped off a part in Seattle for a job my son was working on. In the evening it would have been much quicker, but during the rush hour drive time, it was 1.5 hours, and I spent no time on the job.
Take all those 1.5 hours, with no time on the job, and if you weren't charging for it, how would you buy gas even?

But the pump is working, and the back up pump too, right?
It's all good.

And no, I wasn't able to charge for my actual time for dropping off the part, it was more like a money loser, but it kept the job moving.
I'm always amazed that UPS will deliver to someones door step for less then $15
But then when you look at the trucks, they're dropping stuff off on every street as they drive by. Those $15 charges start to really add up.

I think it depends on exactly what they did the first time. It's somewhat likely they inadvertently unplugged the backup pump while working on the main pump. If they were messing with it and forgot to plug it back in - it's on them. If it was already unplugged and they weren't looking at the backup pump - it's on you.

I'm glad I live where I live though!

**Terry** · 09-21-2010, 08:07 AM

It's somewhat likely they inadvertently unplugged the backup pump

Really? Even though the homeowner admits that he was the last one to work on the back up pump, you lay that on the plumber?

I can't imagine a plumber unplugging their backup pump and telling them they need a battery.
Keep in mind, the homeowner was buying and installing the battery, it wasn't like the plumber was "hoping" for more work.
I can imagine a homeowner replacing the battery, and forgetting to plug it back in.

This kind of forgetfulness happens. I don't think contractors should be responsible to drive out every time a homeowner leaves a pump unplugged.

I've had cases where I've asked the homeowner to fully open a shutoff valve and let me know if that fixes a problem.
They insist that I need to drive out to do it.
I tell them if all that's needed is to open their shutoff valve, it's a service charge. They still won't check the valve for me.
I run out, open the valve and charge them. What goes on in their head that they can't reach down and check things in their own house. No wait, they had. They had played around with the shutoff and turned it almost all the way off thinking that was the correct solution. So when I asked them to reopen the valve, they thought the plumber was just dumb. So because they think the plumber is dumb, they want the plumber to drive all the way across town, and "fix" what the homeowner did to themselves.
There are a few things like that a homeowner can do himself, things like:

Make sure it's plugged in.
If the valve opened?
Push the reset.
Look inside the tank and make sure there isn't any cardboard or paper instructions preventing the flapper from sealing.
Make sure it isn't someone peeing on the floor, and not that the wax seal is leaking, there is a big difference, a wax seal leak is mainly clear water.
Make sure your spray head on the kitchen sink isn't loose.

Can you other plumbers think of a few things here?

**Wally Hays** · 09-21-2010, 09:46 AM

Oh the joys of being in business

**ballvalve** · 09-21-2010, 09:54 AM

Long term repeat customer? You charge him cost for that one if you want to keep him as a customer. Get him on the next real service call.

Dentists and doctors office visits dont get that money.

Or come here and get it fixed for free.

**Estrogen Hostage** · 09-22-2010, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Terry

Really? Even though the homeowner admits that he was the last one to work on the back up pump, you lay that on the plumber?

I don't know if that's what happened but neither do you. On my backup pump alarm it will beep at me if the battery is bad. Maybe the plumber unplugged it to keep it from beeping. Maybe he bumped it while working on the pump. On my pump removal of the main pump would require removal of the backup pump. Maybe the OP inadvertently unplugged it. Who knows?

I am just saying that it depends on what actually happened. If the plumber had to remove the pump like on mine and didn't plug it back in himself - you bet he should make a call over there to make it right! If the homeowner did it - there should be a service call involved. We don't have enough information to decide which person screwed this up.

**jerbrad** · 09-22-2010, 12:35 PM

Thanks, everyone. I do want to say I was the one that unplugged the back-up system when the darn thing kept beeping but I unplugged every possible plug! This was before the plumber came out the first time. The reason for my initial call was 'the back-up system' was beeping. They replaced the sump pump and (I think) assumed that was the total problem. The plumber also wrote on the invoice - 90 day warranty. My second call was for the same reason - the back-up system was beeping. I am a long standing customer and have spent a ton of money with this plumber.

I've NEVER complained before and feel terrible doing this but I can not understand how this is two different jobs! Terry, I know you're the expert but how would you feel if you called someone to fix something in your home (I'm sure you're able to fix everything) and had to call again a few days later because of the same problem?? I just don't get it.

**Porky** · 09-22-2010, 02:14 PM

I like Terry's response and he's right. In this instance who really knows whose really at fault? If the home owner distrusts the long time plumber, I recommend that he find another one however keep in mind he was apparently your trusted plumber for a long time. My well drilling/pump contracts all read that if the systems were serviced by other than our authorized employees our warranty became void. In this case since the customer attempted to service the equipment any warranty was void. Sorry home owner, the customer isn't always wright!

**jerbrad** · 09-23-2010, 05:25 AM

I will not let this go! I feel I have been wronged and am now going to write to the newspaper and the BBB. I get the impression the only people that understand my side are the ones that use plumbers and the one that say I'm wrong are plumbers. hmmmm

To the tradesmen out there who think I'm wrong...let me tell you a little secret! I will not be using your services any longer and I will be spreading the negative word to my colleagues at the University where I work, neighbors, friends, all associations I belong to and anyone else I come in contact with. I may even start a little website called www.xyzplumbingsucks.com. Now, is it that important to be right? I just want to be treated fairly and when I call someone to fix something, I would like that person to use their skills and talents it fix the thing right the first time. And why offer a warranty if you don't honor it?

Thank you all for your help in this matter.

**Estrogen Hostage** · 09-23-2010, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by jerbrad

I will not let this go! I feel I have been wronged and am now going to write to the newspaper and the BBB. I get the impression the only people that understand my side are the ones that use plumbers and the one that say I'm wrong are plumbers. hmmmm

To the tradesmen out there who think I'm wrong...let me tell you a little secret! I will not be using your services any longer and I will be spreading the negative word to my colleagues at the University where I work, neighbors, friends, all associations I belong to and anyone else I come in contact with. I may even start a little website called www.xyzplumbingsucks.com. Now, is it that important to be right? I just want to be treated fairly and when I call someone to fix something, I would like that person to use their skills and talents it fix the thing right the first time. And why offer a warranty if you don't honor it?

Thank you all for your help in this matter.

Don't you think that's taking it a little bit far? If you're capable of installing the battery you're capable of making sure it's all plugged in before calling him back.

You assumed some of the responsibility to get it all back together when you let him leave without putting the battery in. I assume you did that to save money?

**jerbrad** · 09-23-2010, 06:29 AM

Thank you all for your opinions. I appreciate it.

**ballvalve** · 09-23-2010, 09:22 AM

EXACTLY my point boys. If his plumber would have sucked up this little one, and made it right for nothing or a few bucks, he would have a continued customer and friend and new customers coming in on referral. Now he has an enemy for no good reason.

You guys must live in BIG cities where you can give the finger to your old customers. Here, where everyone knows each other, you have to be fair like granpa was before we all got so greedy and need electric toilet seats to wiggle our hanging parts with hot water and blow dry our vent. Dont pay the guy.

$145 for 15 minutes? The plumber could have come in on a taxi and still made a profit. Ridiculous.

**Gary Slusser** · 09-23-2010, 09:59 AM

Well, regardless of who is right, the plumber lost a long term paying customer that will now for the next 5 yrs minimum be telling all the people that will listen the name of the plumber and to stay away from him. Many of those people will stay away from him.

IMO that will cost the plumber much more than to have refunded this $145 service call refund. Especially when he can't prove that he or his guys didn't leave the plug unplugged.

Me, knowing it is difficult to near impossible to overcome bad PR, I would have given the refund. Especially after telling the customer how to replace the battery himself. I would still have my long term paying on time customer feelin' good and no bad PR, and all for $145! What a bargain when you compare that to the cost of finding a new customer to replace an existing one.