Two main question--new softener

Gary Slusser · Sep 19, 2010

Wally Hays said:
And they say wheat bread is good for you... Ha.

All regular bread will probably have from 120-160 mg of sodium per slice. On average and overall,, wheat bread is usually better for you than white bread.

Wally Hays said:
Problem with soft water for washing cars and such is that usually that same sillcock gets used to water the flowere and the lawn. That be a whole lot o water to run through the softener and since most of that use is during the spring and summer months, unless you have a metered head, you really need to re-program a couple times a year which, naturally most folks forget to do and then they call me because they are getting hard water through the faucets.

I tell my customers how to do things so that using soft water for plants doesn't happen. And next to no water treatment dealers sell day timer clock type control valves anymore but, reprogramming any type of control valve usually takes just a few minutes; you only change the salt lbs and K of capacity, and on a day timer, the number of days between the regenerations if needed. But like I say, my customers don't have the problem. If yours do, you might want to figure out a better way to do it and that will reduce customer phone calls.

Gary Slusser · Sep 19, 2010

606zpx said:
Thank you Bob....makes sense now.

Actually the math doesn't work out to support the explanation.

The K of capacity in a given volume of regular mesh resin requires a certain number of lbs of salt to regenerate that volume of capacity.

The P number has nothing to do with salt efficiency.

The number of gallons of softened water you use per day after the control ( a metered control) has been programed has nothing to do with salt efficiency.

If you use more than in this case 120 gals/day, the control simply and automatically causes a regeneration when the gallons count down to a set number that is calculated every night 2 hrs before the scheduled time of regeneration, which is normally 2AM, so midnight.

In this case 7000 grains/regeneration = 7000/7gpg of hardness = 1000 gallons bein put on the meter.

Your Clack WS-1 variable reserve will cause regeneration before the 1000 gals count down to 0 gallons remaining. For 11,000/7 = 1571 gallons and 1571/120 = 12.8 days between regenerations or whatever calendar override number you've set. Which should be 7-9 days between regenerations.

To see the number of gallons remaining... if they are not on your display, push the Next button and they will be shown.. Pushing Next will go back to the time.

The number of minutes the rinses run for has nothing to do with salt efficiency.

Which in my programming is 3333 grains/lb of salt used, which is 21 rounded to 2.5 lbs for my programming and 3.3 lbs for 11K. Which should be rounded up to 3.5 lbs for 11K, not 3.0 lbs as stated.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

NHmaster3015 · Sep 20, 2010

I tell my customers how to do things so that using soft water for plants doesn't happen.

Without running a whole separate sillcock that ain't happening, well unless you have them close the bypass everytime they water LOL

And next to no water treatment dealers sell day timer clock type control valves anymore

Where do you have any figures to support that. Fleck still sells a crap load of non metered heads
We still sell a crap load of non metered heads.

but, reprogramming any type of control valve usually takes just a
few minutes; you only change the salt lbs and K of capacity, and on a day timer, the number of days between the regenerations if needed.

Yep, and like I said, most are going to forget to do just that

But like I say, my customers don't have the problem. If yours do, you might want to figure out a better way to do it and that will reduce customer phone calls.[/QUOTE]

Now that I believe cause you don't have any customers anymore

Gary Slusser · Sep 20, 2010

Wally Hays said:
Without running a whole separate sillcock that ain't happening, well unless you have them close the bypass everytime they water LOL

That is one way. I guess you're stuck with that if you can't think of any others.

Wally Hays said:

Where do you have any figures to support that. Fleck still sells a crap load of non metered heads We still sell a crap load of non metered heads.

Click to expand...

I guess you don't know it but there are four (4) monthly magazines that many water treatment dealers subscribe to. I started receiving them in 1987 and read every word in those I received every month for many years. Info like how many and what kind of control valves plus a lot of other of the same type of info is published in them. It is a very inexpensive means to stay informed about the industry. Sorry to hear you don't, but many plumbers, well drillers and pump guys don't, so you aren't alone, just wrong and uniformed I guess and your customers pay for it.

Also, why are you putting your customers into a type of softener that causes them to use up to 50% more salt and water than the same control valve in a metered version would save them? I guess I've already answered that, sorry.

Wally Hays said:

Yep, and like I said, most are going to forget to do just that

Now that I believe cause you don't have any customers anymore

Click to expand...

My customer don't have to remember.

About 3-4 weeks ago a guy I sold and installed a softener to in July of 1994 called me about it not producing soft water the last few weeks and it had too much water in the salt tank. We found a loose brine line compression nut. It was a metered 5600. Now I call him and others I've sold to over the last 24 yrs my customers, but you can just keep acting like a little kid and call'em anything you like and be wrong again.

Click to expand...

Bob999 · Sep 20, 2010

606zpx said:
Thank you Bob....makes sense now.

For those out there that really want a Clack valve set up but cant buy on line due to the policy change.....I bought my unit at Ferguson Supplies.....made by Cuno/3m under the name Aquapure.

When I called them a couple times asking questions I had folks on the phone within a minute or so.

Just so you know the basis for the recommendation I gave you for capacity here is a link that shows the capacity/salt dose relationship for both standard high capacity resin (which I assume you have) (called C-100) in the table and for a specialty resin used in high iron situations (and others). See the table on page 4.

http://www.caitechnologies.com/images/PDFs/specs/SST60.pdf

From the table you will see that the capacity for standard high capacity resin (C-100) for 3 lbs of salt is 12.8 thousand grains. I recommended you use 11,000--taking into account that in practical use and over time actual achieved efficiencies are typically less than the published figures.

Another factor that comes into play with low salt doses is that leakage (the amount of hardness that "slips" through the softener) increases. You can see data for leakage in the linked document. Leakage is one of the reasons I do not recommend using less than 3 lbs/cubic foot of resin salt dose.

NHmaster3015 · Sep 20, 2010

Yes I do read the trade publications and fleck still sells a crap load of non metered heads. You need to pick up the latest issue I guess

I "put my customers" into equipment that they can afford and are comfortable with.

Why don't your customers have to remember? Do you call them twice a year or send out a reminder? LOL

And a guy you equipment to calls you because it's not working right and that is some major event in your life? So you call every customer you have had in the last 24 years and have a chat with them. LOL

What am I calling "em" Chief ? Since when did customers become a bad word?

I do believe that you just might be agitating again LOLOLOLOLOLO

Gary Slusser · Sep 21, 2010

Wally Hays said:
Yes I do read the trade publications and fleck still sells a crap load of non metered heads. You need to pick up the latest issue I guess.

Like I said, probably to plumbers, drillers and pump guys. Or... for filters.

Wally Hays said:
I "put my customers" into equipment that they can afford and are comfortable with.

You set the price and should be telling them your day timer will cost them up to 50% more water and salt.

Wally Hays said:
Why don't your customers have to remember? Do you call them twice a year or send out a reminder? LOL

I used to send reminders but not for reprogramming their control valve. Recall my customers don't hae the sillcock problem you mentioned.

Wally Hays said:
And a guy you equipment to calls you because it's not working right and that is some major event in your life? So you call every customer you have had in the last 24 years and have a chat with them. LOL

I mentioned that in response to your comment that I don't have any customers.

Wally Hays said:
What am I calling "em" Chief ? Since when did customers become a bad word?

I don't know what you call'em. You didn't say what you called my customers, you just said I don't have any customers and were wrong again.

Wally Hays said:
I do believe that you just might be agitating again LOLOLOLOLOLO

Why when I was answering your questions and correcting your incorrect assumption that I don't have any customers?

BTW, since you sya you've been reading industry magazineswhich programming do you go with, Bob's 11K or my 7K?

And, do you understand now what establishes salt efficiency and that the P number isn't involved?

Do you think that Bob's 3 minutes for the 1st backwash is sufficient BVs to get the 1.0 cuft of resin ready for brining?

How about sufficient BVs for the 2nd backwash?

NHmaster3015 · Sep 22, 2010

The answer is........................................42

Gary Slusser · Sep 22, 2010

Wally Hays said:
The answer is........................................42

You watch too many cartoons.

NHmaster3015 · Sep 22, 2010

I figger that since we all have had this discussion probably a hundred times or more and it always ends up about the same, what's the point?
42 however is the answer to life, the universe and everything.

NHmaster3015 · Sep 24, 2010

I simply choose not to get involved in yet another pointless, endless argument. Gary has made it abundently clear to everyone that posts here that he does not think any of know anything at all (even though we have all been in business for many years ) So what is the point of going around and around and around?

If you have ever tried to bait someone into yet another argument on a forum you just might be an agitator.

When you belong to this forum, a sense of humor is pretty much vital.

Two main question--new softener

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