How can I store tanks with resin in them?

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Mckeand13

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I've got a system that I won't be installing for a while. I don't really know when I will have the time so I need to store them for a while.

I mixed us some brine in a bucket and filled them up. How long can I store them like that or is there a better method? Is it correct that they shouldn't be stored dry? Will the brine prevent the water from becoming really gross or will I have to change it once in a while?

Thanks.
 

big dripper

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Can you describe your equipment a little better. The equipment has never been used? New? Can you protect from freezing and void high temperatures? Are you alking about brine in the brine tank or the softener?
 

Mckeand13

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I'm asking about resin tank only.

It was used for a very short period of time. It still has the resin and distributor in it.

It's in the basement right now so no freezing or high temps.
 

big dripper

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I would rather store the softener with water in it rather than dry. You can store it with the resins regenerated or in a brine solution. If you could manually regenerate it on occasion, that would help prevent fouling or odors from developing.
 

Gary Slusser

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Resin should not be stored in brine. It should be fully regenerated (15 lbs/cuft) and stored covered with water while preventing the water from evaporating.

Disinfecting can be done with a bit of regular non scented household bleach when the unit is put back into service.
 
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big dripper

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Resins are perfectly safe to store in a brine solution. There is no negative effect to resins in a partially or completely saturated brine solution.

mcleand13, do not worry at all if your softener tanks (resins) are stored with partial or complete brine solution. The important thing is to keep them wet and from freezing or overheating. Santizing is also recommended at least prior to reusing.
 
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NHmaster3015

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we "winterize" quite a few softeners around here because they are in camps. We regenerate the unit on site and then drain and clean out the brine tank. blow the brine line out and take the entire unit back to the shop (not the brine tank) and store them in our shop with water still in the unit. when we put it back in we cycle it through and let it go. Never had any problems, odor or otherwise. we don't store them with brine over the beads but only because I can't see reason too. Storing the unit with brine on the beads should not cause any problems though.
 

big dripper

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I agree. There is no reason to purposely store them in brine but if it is done by chance or found to be left in brine, then nothing to worry about. We store many softeners for 'winter-pulls' and have yet to find any issues. Resin manufacturers will also comment on the resin storage conditions and sanitizing methods.
 

big dripper

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Bill from CAI Technologies (215-679-0470) said there is no damage or problem by leaving resins in a brine solution for extended periods of time. Avoid freezing and SUDDEN thawing.
Jason from DOW Chemical (800-258-2436) said there is no problem or damage by leaving resins in a 15% to 25% brine solution for extened periods of time.
Dwight from Sybron (800-678-0020) should return my call shortly.
Bob from Res Kem (800-323-1983) said there is no problem or damage by leaving resins in a brine solution of 15+% for extended periods of time. Just avoid freezing. The resins will shrink but there is no damage and resins should be perform as expected.
Gary from Purolite (email) said, catagorically, that there is no damage from resins sitting in a brine solution (anion or cation) for extended periods of time and confirmed that this DOES NOT cause osmotic (not osmonic, http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1274&start=0) shock in any way.
 
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Skip Wolverton

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Somebody teach me something here. I have always been under the impression that no matter how much water and salt you have, the salt will only dissolve to 26% brine. The way Gary says it, it sounds as though it is possible of the brine to exceed 26%.
 

big dripper

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Somebody teach me something here. I have always been under the impression that no matter how much water and salt you have, the salt will only dissolve to 26% brine. The way Gary says it, it sounds as though it is possible of the brine to exceed 26%.

I believe that is exactly what he is saying and I saw no need to recontact those professionals as suggested.

I never expected a response from him like that. It kind of left me dumbfounded. You know, one of those "duh..." moments. I was going to just let it go but thought I would help him a little with some referrence points below:
http://www.watertechonline.com/article.asp?IndexID=6630548
http://seagrant.oregonstate.edu/sgpubs/onlinepubs/h99002.html
http://www.novachem.com/productservices/docs/BrineSolution_MSDS_EN.pdf

Thanks Skip
 
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Nukeman

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It is possible to exceed the ~26%, but only if you go to supersaturated conditions. This involves heating the water up (usually to boiling), add salt until fully saturated, and then cool down. This isn't going on, so ~26% is your max. Adding more will just give you a layer of salt on the bottom.
 

Gary Slusser

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I believe that is exactly what he is saying and I saw no need to recontact those professionals as suggested.
No that is not what I said or meant but see below.

I never expected a response from him like that. It kind of left me dumbfounded. You know, one of those "duh..." moments. I was going to just let it go but thought I would help him a little with some referrence points below:
http://www.watertechonline.com/article.asp?IndexID=6630548
http://seagrant.oregonstate.edu/sgpubs/onlinepubs/h99002.html
http://www.novachem.com/productservices/docs/BrineSolution_MSDS_EN.pdf
Let's check out your "referrence " materials Andy.

The first link above... there is no mention, not a single one, of or about storing resin in brine as we are discussing here.

The article is about dry brining (pre refill) and wet brining (post refill) salt storage in a salt tank of a water softener. BTW, your Purolite buddy mentions a "salimeter" - Google can't find anything about a "salimeter".

Your second "referrence" link also has nothing in it about storing softener resin in brine.

Nor does the third link "referrence" storing softener resin in brine.

So what are you doing here with a "referrence" to misinformation?

It seems as if you and Skip (probably Wally too) don't know anything about osmotic shock so I will break down and educate y'all with a Google search for resin + "osmotic shock". There are gobs'n GOBS of info on the subject; which IMO your "referrence" should have been about. Recall that this type thing is why you were banned here a little over a year ago now and all your posts here were deleted.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=...=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US358&ie=UTF-8

Here is a very good explanation of osmotic shock found in that search as I have applied it to this thread where the OP Mike, a DIYer, is wanting to add brine of unknown solution strength to a resin tank to store used resin in for an unknown length of time. It is an article reprinted from the Feb 2010 issue of the original article in WC&P magazine.

http://www.hellenbrand.com/my_files/PDFs for Water Treatment Articles/2010_02_Wirth_print.pdf

I strongly suggest that Mike does not store his resin in brine.
 

NHmaster3015

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http://www.hellenbrand.com/my_files/PDFs%20for%20Water%20Treatment%20Articles/2010_02_Wirth_print.pdf

Read the entire article and after doing so it occurs to me that there has been a misunderstanding of what exactly osmotic shock is and how it effects resin. Brining in and of itself does not cause osmotic shock. The shock occurs when overbrining combined with the rapid rinse cycle or water hammer conditions happen. Brining causes the beads to swell, which is normal and expected. Osmotic shock occurs when those swelled beads are subjected to stress such as the rapid rinse cycle or swelling and contraction over a shortened period of time. Leaving the beads in a normal brine solution will swell the beads but unless they are subjected to stress during storage, damage should be minimal if at all. Reading through all of these articles is interesting because in not one single article does it say that storing resin in brine solutin will destroy or degrade the resin, which is contrary to what I have always believed, so..... Thank you BD for enlightening all of us.
 

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Skip Wolverton

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It is possible to exceed the ~26%, but only if you go to supersaturated conditions. This involves heating the water up (usually to boiling), add salt until fully saturated, and then cool down. This isn't going on, so ~26% is your max. Adding more will just give you a layer of salt on the bottom.
That's good to know. Thanks for the input.
 

NHmaster3015

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You are correct Skip. soaking resin in brine does indeed expand the resin but that will not in itself appreciably weaken it. It's the sudden and constant expansion and contraction of the resin beads that causes them to degrade.
 

Hairyhosebib

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I have a question about salt saturation. I kind of remember from my softener training that one gallon of water will melt 13 pounds of salt? Maybe it was 9 pounds. I'm pretty sure this info was in our Bruner training manual years ago.
 

Akpsdvan

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I was thinking that it was 1gallon per 3lbs of salt.

From the older Fleck 9000 book there is a line..
"Then using one gallon of fresh water dissolving approximately 3lbs salt, ..."
 
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