Kitchen Rough-In Problems

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TipsMcStagger

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New guy here...lookign for some advice:

I know it shouldn't be like this but it is and now I have to deal with it. The guy who's been working with me during the kitchen renovations (skilled but not a licensed plumber) wasn't paying attention and positioned the hot supply rough-in directly above the drain stack in the floor. I was traveling at the time and didn't notice this until after we installed the sink base. The 3" PVC drain protruding through the bottom of the sink base is in the slab is original to the house. The home was originally plumbed with copper in the slab but was replumbed with CPVC through the attic prior to my ownership due to a slab leak. We removed a wall during the renovation so the CPVC stub-out is new. The sink base is against a knee wall that is open to the living room.

I am going to be installing a Franke ORX-110 single bowl sink which positions the drain toward the rear and left side of the sink. I will be installing a disposal too.

I'm very concerned that the disposal is going to interfere with the drain which is going to interfere with the hot supply. The counter top has not yet been installed. It would very difficult to remove the sink base at this point without hacking it up because the coupling on the 3" drain stack was installed after the sink base was set into position.

My plan, as of now is to install a 3" to 2" bushing into the coupling and then use two 2" street 45's to offset the drain stack to the left of the hot supply. This would probably offset the drain about 2" to 2 1/2". Any reason why this wouldn't work?

As far as I know, there was never a provision for a vent at this location. There are at least two vents I've seen in the attic exiting through the roof but I have no idea where they tie into the system. My plan is to go vertical from the two street 45's into a sanitary tee for the P trap connection and then extended vertically above the tee with a Studor (AAV) vent. I'm also considering installing a cleanout tee (or wye) above the street 45's but below the sanitary tee. I just don't know if I'll have enough space beneath the sink for both tee's and the AAV.

The 3" stack with the tee that's pictured is what was removed from the previous installation. I've only included it for illustrative purposes.

Thanks.

Tipsy


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hj

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quote; As far as I know, there was never a provision for a vent at this location.

That is NOT sufficient justification for NOT installing one while the remodeling was going on. You have a "makeshift" drain system which will be just adequate MOST of the time, but could have drain problems if ANY other drain system in the house gets obstructed.
 

TipsMcStagger

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That is NOT sufficient justification for NOT installing one while the remodeling was going on. You have a "makeshift" drain system which will be just adequate MOST of the time, but could have drain problems if ANY other drain system in the house gets obstructed.

Thank you for your reply. I'm not a plumber and had no idea anything was abnormal until well after the walls were dry-walled and the cabinets installed.

I cannot go back now and install a proper vent. I wouldn't even know how that could have been accomplished when the wall was still open. The sink is against a knee wall which is open to the living room. I'm not trying to justify or claim that it's proper as it is. And I'm not suggesting a proper vent could not have been plumbed by someone more knowledgeable than myself.

I'm simply trying to get educated and determine if there is an acceptable alternative since I have no choice but to work with what I have.

Tipsy
 
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Fubar411

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Well, your justification for not taking out the cabinet is that coupling on the PVC. You probably know that you can simply cut that flush and make the hole a little bigger for when the coupling is inside the hole in the cabinet. So realistically, you just don't want to tear into everything again.

There are diagrams out there, but even with a knee-wall you can make a loop vent and then have proper venting. I'd be mad at this not-a-plumber plumber.
 

TipsMcStagger

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Well, your justification for not taking out the cabinet is that coupling on the PVC. You probably know that you can simply cut that flush and make the hole a little bigger for when the coupling is inside the hole in the cabinet. So realistically, you just don't want to tear into everything again.

There are diagrams out there, but even with a knee-wall you can make a loop vent and then have proper venting. I'd be mad at this not-a-plumber plumber.
Can you please direct me to the proper diagrams? I've been searching for days but I guess I don't know what I'm searching for.

If I understand correctly, you're saying there is some kind of loop that can be contained within the knee wall? There is quite a bit of plywood and 2x4 blocking between the drywall and the knee wall framing on the cabinet side but I can open the wall from the living room side.

I hadn't given any thought to cutting the coupling flush with the bottom of the sink base. I assumed doing so would preclude gluing a proper extension to the 3" drain once the coupling had been compromised.

Look, I'm just trying to get educated and get some advice. I'm not trying to tell professional plumbers that what's been done is or should be acceptable. It sounds more like I'm being scolded than helped.

Tipsy
 

Terry

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It's more like the guy that installed it originally is getting scolded.
It just frustrates plumbers to see things like this.
Offsetting with 45's on the vertical will be fine.
Normally, you would loop those two pipes together. That's what I would do. Try to loop as high as you can, but do make sure you're not hitting the sink.

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Jadnashua

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Do a search on island vent or loop vent to see what should have been constructed there if the plumber had a clue.
 

TipsMcStagger

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It's more like the guy that installed it originally is getting scolded. It just frustrates plumbers to see things like this.
I can understand that. Everything I know about venting, I've learned in the past few days reading forums such as yours. Had I recognized earlier that venting at this location was lacking, I would have done something about it.

Offsetting with 45's on the vertical will be fine.
Normally, you would loop those two pipes together. That's what I would do. Try to loop as high as you can, but do make sure you're not hitting the sink.
Okay...I'm a little confused. Are you saying that my plan to offset with two 45's and then go vertical into a tee and top the tee with an AAV is acceptable?

Or are you saying I should form a loop within the cabinet? If so, I'm not at all clear on how the loop should be connected.

Thanks very much for the help, Terry.

Tipsy
 
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TipsMcStagger

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Do a search on island vent or loop vent to see what should have been constructed there if the plumber had a clue.

I've been searching for the last hour. From what I can tell, it appears the slab would have had to have been broken-up to properly connect the vent loop back into the drain (which is in the slab).

While this could have been done, it's really not an option now. I just had travertine installed and I simply don't have the money to tear everything out. I know what's been installed isn't correct but I can only attempt to apply the best Band-Aid that's available.

Thanks for the reply.

Tipsy
 
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